this is also my experience, i always make the mistake of thinking that people want explanations from first principles when in reality the socially correct explanation is usually first order causes. my SO once asked me why some water bottles go glug glug instead of sploosh when you pour them out and then they made a face at me when i tried to explain what a stress tensor was
the correct answer here was that some water bottles have wider bottlenecks than others
"Why do some water bottles go glug glug instead of sploosh when you pour them out?" to mean "I am telling you in an oblique way that I am frustrated by this particular bottle that I am pouring from because it's going glug glug when others pour smoothly."
In this case it's air getting in the way of the water. There's a vacuum created when water leaves the container, but the water is heavy enough to still fall out. The air displaced by the water is light enough to travel to fill that vacuum, but if the mouth is narrow enough, the water gets in the way until the forces are sufficient for a bubble of air to travel into the container, interrupting the flow until the forces are such that water flows again.
In defence of Grice, they are maxims and so he's being perspicuous in his choice of terms here; these aren't standardised guidelines which enumerate all the different permutations of conversations and describe exactly how much is the appropriate quantity of information or distinguish what is and is not relevant, for example, because doing so would be downright impossible.
I think that speaking with children gives you good insight into how these maxims are based on convention because kids will routinely violate these maxims and it can be downright exasperating at times but it helps illuminate how we have an intuitive grasp of what is relevant, what a sufficient amount of information without being excessive looks like, and why things like clarity, orderliness, and being truthful are important to effective communication (even if that intuitive grasp isn't perfectly exact.)
The ablism enters the picture when every mismatch in priorities in a conversation is blamed on the neurodiverse person.
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this is also my experience, i always make the mistake of thinking that people want explanations from first principles when in reality the socially correct explanation is usually first order causes. my SO once asked me why some water bottles go glug glug instead of sploosh when you pour them out and then they made a face at me when i tried to explain what a stress tensor was
the correct answer here was that some water bottles have wider bottlenecks than others
See also:
"Why do some water bottles go glug glug instead of sploosh when you pour them out?" to mean "I am telling you in an oblique way that I am frustrated by this particular bottle that I am pouring from because it's going glug glug when others pour smoothly."
fuck, this never even occurred to me
this is probably the best answer actually
What do you think primarily influences the sound when water is poured from a bottle? Is it the material of the bottle or something else?
In this case it's air getting in the way of the water. There's a vacuum created when water leaves the container, but the water is heavy enough to still fall out. The air displaced by the water is light enough to travel to fill that vacuum, but if the mouth is narrow enough, the water gets in the way until the forces are sufficient for a bubble of air to travel into the container, interrupting the flow until the forces are such that water flows again.
Tangential but you might enjoy Richard Feynman's "why" lecture.
In defence of Grice, they are maxims and so he's being perspicuous in his choice of terms here; these aren't standardised guidelines which enumerate all the different permutations of conversations and describe exactly how much is the appropriate quantity of information or distinguish what is and is not relevant, for example, because doing so would be downright impossible.
I think that speaking with children gives you good insight into how these maxims are based on convention because kids will routinely violate these maxims and it can be downright exasperating at times but it helps illuminate how we have an intuitive grasp of what is relevant, what a sufficient amount of information without being excessive looks like, and why things like clarity, orderliness, and being truthful are important to effective communication (even if that intuitive grasp isn't perfectly exact.)
Hard agree.