Excited to find the western chauvinists in this community.

Edit: Wow apparently the only people on chapo dot chat are whitees unaffected by and benefiting from their imperialism confidently declaring how the perpetrators are to be treated.
Y'all have some nerve

Edit 2:
ITT If you shoot a black kid in the back in downtown Baltimore I want nothing to do with you. If you perfarate an entire back family in Mogadischu or Baghdad that's ok, you did growth and spaces.

  • LeninsRage [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    This video. That's the post

    People forget that one of original lines of the Internationale were "Our bullets are for our own generals"

    EDIT: You know what, no, that's not the post. Does anyone remember who the most effective activists against the Vietnam War. The Vietnam Veterans Against War. The conservatives literally had to concoct a mythology that anti-war activists fucking hated the troops to the point that they spit on returning veterans.

    Bourgeois professional militaries literally have their own inherent class divide in officers vs enlisted.

    The entire reason historical wars became so unpopular was because of drafts and conscription, which is inherently polarizing due to affecting different segments of society unequally based on class. Conscripted armies are literally a means of socialization and consciousness-forming for the working class in the exact same way concentrated industrial enterprises are. Conscript armies become pressure cookers for class-based social unrest and dissent. This is precisely the reason they abolished the draft after Vietnam and will never actually reinstitute it. Just like police, professional volunteer-only militaries inevitably become hotbeds of reaction and hubs for reactionary indoctrination, pitting the professional soldiers and professional cops against cowardly, soft "civilians".

      • LeninsRage [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Against the invasion. They were all for fighting the war.

      • StalinVibes [she/her,comrade/them]
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        4 years ago

        Definitely, but internal contradictions in the US, harnessed by the American anti-war movement, made the Viet Cong's attritional warfare tactics actually effective. The whole point wasn't to beat the US army in open combat, we saw the Tet offensive, that was a tactical defeat for the NVA but it was a strategic victory because it drastically lowered morale and empowered the anti-war movement at home. But for that strategy to work that anti-war movement had to exist and the contradictions of an overconfident and overextended US empire had to exist as well.

    • cilantrofellow [any]
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      4 years ago

      In some ways it’s different under a “volunteer army,” i.e. one populated by the domestically immiserated, looking for and wooed by the benefits of service.

      I’m open for this discussion, but I find it unwise and unexamined to either fully absolve or cancel poor imperial core kids largely raised to be ignorant of their country’s atrocities.

      • LeninsRage [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Something of a thesis I've been working on in my head lately is that the United States has replaced a traditional welfare state with its imperial military Keynesianism and the military-industrial complex.

        • American military bases and other facilities often render total economic dependence on the surrounding community or region. They offer employment for locals and station personnel act as consumers for the local economy
        • The US grants effectively unlimited subsidies to defense contractors, almost always guaranteeing a profit to the companies in question no matter the eventual cost overrides. These companies and their production facilities also frequently engender economic dependence for the surrounding community, employing tens of thousands of people and more. In fact government largesse in this regard played a massive role in the development of the modern conservative movement, as southern California, particularly the LA suburbs, became a huge hub for the aeronautics industries from the 1950s onward. This region also happened to be a historical hub of anti-union sentiment, so the suburbs with high property values that grew like a fungus around LA became inhabited by industrial workers who were effectively bribed with high wages and good benefits not to unionize. The modern conservative movement as we know it developed here in particular in the late 50s/early 60s, as this booming economy and middle class adopted a reactionary homesteader rugged individualism ideology, because the middleman of private defense corporations obscure the fact that the origin of their material prosperity was not due to their own sweat and grit as "pioneering frontiersmen" who earned everything from hard work but through massive amounts of government largesse.
        • The US government slashes social programs and cuts taxes for the rich, and produces massively expensive private sector health care and higher education, and subjects the newest generation to debt slavery, all in order to entice them into joining up with the volunteer-only military. The phrase "the military is the most socialist organization in the United States" is in large part correct, as it offers extremely extensive and robust 18yo-to-grave welfare benefits that can even be passed down to offspring; and also concentrates people from disparate geographical regions, races, and creeds into single locations, forces them onto a disciplined and heavily time-structured regimen that includes exhaustive physical training, and force them to act as a cohesive, collective unit that should in theory at least trust each other implicitly.
        • You literally can't lose an election by being too pro-military and voting to further fatten the enormous defense budget every time. It's practically the only method that is completely devoid of electoral negatives. It's the sacred cow issue of American electoral politics where politicians don't dare suggest ever cutting the defense budget, in the same way welfare state programs are the sacred cow of the ex-social democracies of Europe.
        • quartz242 [she/her]
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          4 years ago

          This is amazing, thank you for writing that. The military industrial complex is a distillation of the domestic working capitalistic exploitation and imperalism's global south resource plunder. Add on top of that the neoliberal/globalist manufacturing and finance systems ensuring the class divide and restricting mobility except for the one channel that is the military.

          Greenwashing and pinkwashing the military will complete the merge between neoliberal systems and the military industrial thesis you wrote.

          Thanks again

          • cilantrofellow [any]
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            4 years ago

            If you haven’t, you should read American theocracy, which complements this. It’s an interesting read because a) it predicted the 2008 market crash and b) it was written by Nixon’s architect of the southern strategy.