Friendly reminder: when commenting about a news event, especially something that just happened, please provide a source of some kind. While ideally this would be on nitter or archived, any source is preferable to none at all given.
Sources on the fighting in Palestine against Israel. In general, CW for footage of battles, explosions, dead people, and so on:
UNRWA daily-ish reports on Israel's destruction and siege of Gaza and the West Bank.
English-language Palestinian Marxist-Leninist twitter account. Alt here.
English-language twitter account that collates news (and has automated posting when the person running it goes to sleep).
Arab-language twitter account with videos and images of fighting.
English-language (with some Arab retweets) Twitter account based in Lebanon.
English-language Palestinian Twitter account which reports on news from the Resistance Axis.
English-language PalestineResist telegram channel.
More telegram channels here for those interested.
Various sources that are covering the Ukraine conflict are also covering the one in Palestine, like Rybar.
The Country of the Week is still Palestine, though we will switch next week to a new country.
Here is the map of the Ukraine conflict, courtesy of Wikipedia.
The weekly (biweekly?) update is here.
Links and Stuff
The bulletins site is down.
Examples of Ukrainian Nazis and fascists
Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict
Add to the above list if you can.
Resources For Understanding The War
Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map. Their youtube channel has substantially diminished in quality but the map is still useful.
Moon of Alabama, which tends to have interesting analysis. Avoid the comment section.
Understanding War and the Saker: reactionary sources that have occasional insights on the war.
Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.
On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent and very good journalist reporting in the warzone on the separatists' side.
Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.
Telegram Channels
Again, CW for anti-LGBT and racist, sexist, etc speech, as well as combat footage.
Pro-Russian
https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad ~ A few different pro-Russian people gather frequent content for this channel (~100 posts per day), some socialist, but all socially reactionary. If you can only tolerate using one Russian telegram channel, I would recommend this one.
https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
https://t.me/rybar ~ One of, if not the, biggest Russian telegram channels focussing on the war out there. Actually quite balanced, maybe even pessimistic about Russia. Produces interesting and useful maps.
https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense. Does daily, if rather bland updates on the number of Ukrainians killed, etc. The figures appear to be approximately accurate; if you want, reduce all numbers by 25% as a 'propaganda tax', if you don't believe them. Does not cover everything, for obvious reasons, and virtually never details Russian losses.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.
Pro-Ukraine
Almost every Western media outlet.
https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.
Last week's discussion post.
My anti-Zionist jewish friend sent me this tumblr post from another anti-Zionist jew talking about the "how to be Anti-Zionist without being antisemetic" subject, and told me its the first one of those posts that she's largely agreed with.
My friend asks that y'all not leave comments or anything please :)
I think its interesting that the post says that the "they can just go back, dual citizenship" rhetoric that Ive seen people here using is a problem because it doesnt reflect reality.
Person seems to be pretty comited to ending aparthied so I dont think they're coming at this in bad faith. And so I think these are good points to keep in mind.
I mean it just a factually wrong post that misrepresents what it cites. The majority of Jews in Israel are not indigenous. Yes there are native Palestinian Jews. I've seen this conflation of Sephardic Jews and Mizrahi Jews multiple times verbatim now. It central to the claim that they are indigenous people. Idk if it's just lack of understanding or a purposeful obfuscation. The 31% Ashkenazi number that they reference I assume they saw from Wikipedia that puts 'soviet' Jews in their own category.
The part about not having a place to return to I feel is an over simplification of how citizenship works. I can claim and get Irish citizenship if I do enough paperwork bc of my family heritage. It doesn't make me a active passport holder. It also shouldn't matter there would obviously have to be land reform but I don't think any one with listening to is advocating for the expulsion of all Jews. Look to south Africa whites were not expelled, although they didn't do land reform correctly.
The first point just sounds like every propagandized response to "river to sea". It conflates a free singular state of Palestine with a state that would not tolerate Jews. The only principled solution is one secular state that allows free practice of religion and doesn't discriminate based on racial lines. I've noticed this trend with Ukraine but western liberals actually believe every state must be an ethnostate.
"I mean, it really doesn't matter how you count ashkenazi jews. The main point there is that a significant part of the Jewish Israeli population is non-white (and actually oppressed under Israel's white supremacist state)" - My friends response to what I felt was your one fairly legitimate point, the bit about Ashkenazi jews in a separate category from "Soviet" jews. Basically, you're right, but it doesn't matter to op's point.
I feel like most of this response is just applying bad faith interpretations to OP's post that just very clearly aren't there based on their rhetoric. I don't want to fine tooth combed all the examples, but all your "corrections" seem to rely on assuming a purpose in what they are saying that just doesn't seem to be there. For example, "don't whitewash Israeli jews" never made the claim that Sephardic jews are indigenous. They also never say anything about people wanting to expel all jews. The thing about the "river to the sea" stuff seems like a HUGE leap based on the text of what was actually written here. They never say anything about a free singular state of Palestine not tolerating jews in that point. Idk where you even got that from. Just bad past experiences I guess? I just dont think those past experiences can be applied here based on OP being pretty clear that nothing justifies apartheid or genocide.
OP's post just seems to stress accuracy in criticism.
I should have been more thorough in my explanations as to not have caused confusion, sorry. Many of these points are not the blunt messaging you see by the most bad faith arbitrators of anti semitism like the adl. I am asserting that the points that are explained here are what is used to underpin many of the bad faith arguments. As an example the argumentation in point 4 is how pro Zionist arguments couch their criticism of the "river to the sea" rallying cry. They equate the abolition of the state of Israel with the expulsion and death of all Jews in Palestine. This is the same way white south Africans painted calls to push "settlers into the sea" obviously we both know there was no white genocide in South Africa.
The other example of the conflation and misrepresentation of Sephardic and mizrahi and native Palestinian Jews underpins much of the claims elsewhere about indgeneity. I brought it up because arguments about indgeneity are absolutely used by people who seek to act as wreckers.
And what you calling out it's outright misrepresentations and lies with a " fine tooth comb" is important. (An aside, I knew it was wrong before looking where they got it, it wasn't some sort of deep investigation, it's a Tumblr post, I assumed they used Wikipedia and I was confirmed by just opening the demographics of Israel page on Wikipedia.) It is not bad faith to point out when the author is either uninformed or lying. I couch this entire argument with the argument of a secular state because your right it doesn't matter. I'm not the one bringing up the point of demographics they are. The fact they are ignorant or worse willingly lie about that argument we both agree doesn't matter should make you skeptical of what they are saying.
Point 3 just drops that people are using anti semitic tropes then pivots to some other point yet again about demographics that is misunderstanding what they are reading from Wikipedia. When they claim "American Israelis only make up about 5% of the Israeli population" In a point about being expelled, again in a secular state we agree they shouldn't be expelled(insert borders are fuck emote), they are conflating American born with Americans. I made my point on Irish citizenship because if you are born to an American parent you are American through birthright. The five percent figure they use is not a figure tied to the point they are trying to make.
AGAIN I DONT THINK JEWS NEED TO BE ETHNICLY CLEANSED TO HAVE A SECULAR AND FREE PALESTINE.
I mean like c'mon point 6 in that Tumblr post is literally "if you replace Zionist with jew you sound anti semitic"
Sorry if this is all over the place I'm a bad writer and I'm struggling to figure out to format this to adress both your comments.
Im a bit tired to parse this right now and I might forget to come back to it but thank you for your input. I think most of my takeaway here is that most of this is good advice in a general sense even if the details are a bit poorly researched? But I'm not sure. The fact that both of the most radical jewish people I know agree with Tumblr OPs points makes me think theres something to it here.
There was no expulsion of Jews from Morocco. It was a largely voluntary migration both before, during, and after the ban on Jewish emigration to Israel in Morocco, including a significant portion facilitated clandestinely by King Hassan II in cooperation with Mossad and the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society in Operation Yakhin after the sinking of the Egoz. There is still a small community of Jews in Morocco and it's one of the few MENA countries Israeli Jews can visit without much issue.
OK. That seems like an actually fair criticism of the post. Though do you have a source?
https://israeled.org/operation-yachin-begins-bringing-jews-from-morocco/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_of_Moroccan_Jews_to_Israel
OK. Sounds like things were pretty rough for Jews in Morocco before then, but that the violence was mostly motivated by the establishment of Israel. I'd still say that I can understand why a Moroccan jew in Israel might not want to return under those circumstances though. Not that that justifies settling let alone genocide.
Even if she used something untrue to make the point, I think the core point of "its not so simple as 'they can just go back' for many jews in Israel" remains true. Which is why we advocate for aTruth and Reconciliation situation.
My point isn't that Moroccan Jews should be sent back to Morocco. My point is that the emigration of Moroccan Jews to Israel can't really be called an expulsion, unlike the emigration of Jews from Iraq or Egypt.
Alright, yeah, I get you. I'm just saying that tumblr's OP's point is still true even if their wrong about Morocco. Like I'm glad you pointed out a factual inaccuracy in their argument. I'm just kinda recentering it on the point they're trying to make. But again, thank you for pointing out the mistake.
I think the word anti semitic really doesn't mean anything any more
My close friend was watching the goldbergs with his parents. My friend is of Jewish decent.
Once the show ended he told me that his parents where going on and on about how the show was so anti semitic. Which is pretty funny considering the show is about jewish people, written by Jewish people, and Jewish actors. They informed his parents of this and they felt pretty foolish.
It's just become s hammer at this point to tear down anything a Jewish person doesn't agree with.
Thats an interesting anecdote but a pretty sus conclusion to draw from it. Jews are still an oppressed group and antisemetism is still very much real.
Oppressed where exactly?
Do you think my conclusion is that thinking that the word anti semitic has lost all meaning due to it's abuse of the word is anti semetic?
Everywhere but Israel that has a Jewish population.
I agree that using antisemetism accusations as a shield against criticisms of Israel/zionism has murkied up the waters but not that it means antisemitism doesnt exist. I think someone mistakenly thinking The Goldbergs is antisemetic until they found out jews made it is just a weird anecdote and drawing a conclusions from it is silly.
I'm a bit sus of you're overal attitude here, especially since you're bringing up this weird anecdote in response to something where its not relevant. I'm not sure whether I'm ready to call it intentional antisemitism yet. Though you asking "where are Jews oppressed actually" is definitly adding to the antisemetic column.
I never said anti semetism doesn't exist
I said that the word it self really doesn't mean anything any more. It's been so thoroughly abused over the past decades. It's a weapon and it's used that way. And eventually verbal weapons lose all potency. Especially when you have a nation of zionist committing genocide labeling why critique as anti semetism
Alright, well, I agree with that, I just feel like the Goldbergs example was a weird one to bring up in response to what I posted? And then the asking where exactly jews are oppressed really put me off footing with you. But yeah, obviously the word has been heavily made murky by misuse.
I guess my point with that example is it doesn't really matter how anything is framed. Or how nuanced you are. Or the tips you get from anti zionist Jewish people. Some people will label anything anti semetic. Getting pointers about how to not come of anti semetic doesn't really do anything.
Sorry thought it was clearer than it came off.
OK I get you. I think we as leftists who presumably care about Jews and not being antisemetic because antisemetism is bad, should make an effort to make our rhetoric not be antisemetic because we want to not be bigots, not to convince entrenched Zionists who won't be convinced anyway. Like, I don't think tumblr OP's post was about winning arguments.
I would like to point out that ive been using Jewish people and not jews for a reason also. The word jews can role of the tounge of non jews in not a great way.
Either way. If you are going to engage with this conflict in person. Get ready for blow back no matter how well you frame things. To be honest just tell them to follow norman finnestein or any of the other great jewish people that detest zionism.
Wait are people like actually saying every single Israeli should be kicked out? Cuz damn, I thought we were all on the same page about it being more like South Africa where only the worst assholes left and the rest had truth and reconciliation etc (at least from what I've learned so far about that time).
If there is to be a right of return for Palestinians expelled during the Nakba and later, there's gonna be the question of what to do with all the Israelis who stole their land and homes. And that's not an insignificant portion of their current population.
Realistically, many citizens will flee just like with South Africa, but a Right of Return will bring some big complications beyond that.
Settlers get the fuck out.
Not every Israeli is a settler or descendant of settlers, not even every Jewish Israeli. But the ones who are, get the fuck out.
We did the same to German Lebensraum settlers in Poland.
Indigenous Land Back initiatives in America, Canada, and Australia do not demand every settler or descendent or settlers go back to Europe, and this is explicitly explained in their literature. They just want stewardship of the land back in their hands. What makes Israel different in this sense. Recency?
Like yeah someone who literally moved from Brooklyn and took a home in the West Bank directly from a Palestinian can fuck off home. But its been pointed out repeatedly that most Israelis were in fact born there and don't have a home to return to. Many were in fact expelled from the countries they left, or would have to go back to places with a current Jewish population of zero, or would not be safe going back to where they came from, or would have to go through an immigration process (due to lack of actual citizenship in the country their grandparents or whoever came from) that wouldn't necessarily accept them.
There's going to have to be a Truth and Reconciliation process and land reform that isn't going to be as simple as we want it to be.
Simply handwaving these problems in the way that seems easiest to repeat as catchphrases isn't actually going to work.
The US would be happy to grant them asylum or even straight up citizenship.
Disagree, the US only has use for them as settlers in Israel. Particularly the non-Ashkenazi ones.
The US could use them as propaganda for decades, trying to re-establish Israel.
Remember, if Israel didn't exist we'd have to invent it. They wouldn't completely give up even after the dismantling of the Israeli state.