Kim Jung Un supports Hamas, just like Iran and Syria
is just the latest remix of Bush Jr's "Axis of Evil" speech.
I can't imagine how the logistics of a NK to Gaza support network is supposed to even function. Yes, it makes Kim look cool on here, but none of it really passes the smell test. Not when the US is impounding Iranian cargo ships with impunity and suffocating the entire Levant with surveillance tech.
Unless NKorea has a teleporter, I'm not clear on how anything they might try to send can reach anyone currently in Gaza.
I have seen at least two pictures of Hamas militants with what were identified as North Korean made RPGs. I think they're able to get supplies into Gaza the same way Hamas gets other supplies in.
Conflict zones like the middle east are hot markets for arms dealers and surplus materiel tend to accumulate there. I doubt there's any direct conduit between the two countries though
Identified by whom? The same folks that gave us "40 decapitated babies", "they bombed their own hospital", and "we did DNA testing on a random skull fragment to confirm Hamas killed Shani Nicole Louk"?
I think they're able to get supplies into Gaza the same way Hamas gets other supplies in.
The Hamas group has a (likely entirely overstated) tunnel network across borders and a (likely entirely overstated) Mediterranean smuggling operation. That gets you a very limited set of imports from Egypt and perhaps Lebanon, Syria, Cyprus, or Turkey if they can really stretch it without the IDF noticing. None of these countries are doing regular direct trade with a small largely agrarian country on the opposite side of Asia. Nothing from North Korea is getting through the Suez Canal, nevermind it getting packed in across the entire length of Russia. Certainly not a militia's worth of rocket propelled grenades. Come the fuck on.
This shit is almost certainly all home grown. From Egypt or Syria? Very likely. Robbed from the Israelis? Definitely possible. Brought in from Iraq? Sure. Brought in from Iran? Maybe. Brought in from Ukraine? Not outside the bounds of possibility. Brought in from the opposite side of the hemisphere? Give me a fucking break. Might as well claim they're receiving arms from Haiti or Nunavut.
real north korean arms are in the levant from when the USSR facilitated them sending arms there, it's not at all unbelievable they're genuine but a bit beyond the pale to suggest korea specifically shipped it to Hamas recently. the news mega is a little weird about id'ing weapon provenance and extrapolating direct shipments/support when even iranian weapons are very likely mostly from middle men procuring them from the direct support iran gives iraqi groups or hezbollah
You don't have to be an expert on arms trade to know that two countries under intense surveillance and at vast distances will have a very difficult time conducting an arms trade.
"How could this be possible?" isn't a question anyone seems capable of seriously answering.
People have literally answered you, and you would probably get even better engagement asking the question straightforwardly, instead of rhetorically, trying to insist that it isn't happening based on vibes.
How is the DPRK smuggling this shit in? What is that supply line even supposed to look like?
Back in 2010, a bunch of Turkish activists tried to send a flotilla to Gaza. They were intercepted and attacked by Israeli forces. That was before the renewed Israeli conflict with Lebanon and the US bombing of Syria, and when the southern border with Egypt wasn't sealed shut. You can't just move in and out of Gaza unmolested. No more than you could take a sailboat to Cuba.
How the fuck is the DPRK getting hundreds of rounds of munitions into a country that struggles to keep itself fed? This seems like a huge stretch to simply take at face value.
Russia ships to domestic and regional arms dealers
Arms dealers smuggle their weapons into Palestine
Turkey, Syria, and Egypt are all next to Israel. There are people there who have sympathies with Palestine but not Russia/NK, or with both Palestine and Russia/NK, or with none of them and want a paycheck. The underworld is full of strange bedfellows. The CIA and MI5/6 were once filled with communists.
There are also reports that some IDF units have been smuggling weapons to Hamas as well. If you’re lucky to turn a border guard or someone else critical to the supply chain, you can pass through undetected.
Even without Chinese support NK can probably smuggle things into China. Israel and the US does not have any ability to monitor every shipment from China to Egypt directly, let alone all goods going through the suez canal. There's definitely tunnels from Gaza to Egypt.
North Korea borders Russia, and Russia is connected to Palestine through land and through friendly nations. Also, you don’t need to have a North Korean physically smuggle weapons and food to Palestine. You just need a lot of money to pay someone near the territories to do it for you.
Progressives are leftists, but applying the liberal label to them doesn’t make much sense in American politics. Liberals in America are center right on a global spectrum, and ultimately very pro corporate. Progressives aren’t these things.
Perhaps you’re conflating government officials with the civilian population they supposedly represent? Consider that there has never been a time in American history where the people have been less represented by the ruling class in government, and that includes all political ideologies. Normal people in America don’t want war or genocide. Arms manufacturing companies and banks do, because they think they can make trillions of dollars from it.
Progressives are leftists in America where the left to right spectrum spans from liberals on one end to liberals on the other end. In reality, they are not leftists because they are not explicitly anti-capitalist. Capitalism is a right wing economic model and even if you're not "pro-corporate" if all you want is a better managed right wing economic system, you're a liberal.
Sounds like you've already received some good food for thought, but I do have another quesiton for you. Within the American spectrum, would you consider Fetterman a "progressive"? He's generally regarded as being one in my experience, at least on domestic issues. And have you see the rhetoric he's been engaging with since October 7th, outright opposing a ceasefire and so on?
There's also the problem of Bernie, pretty much the progressive in America, equivocating and both sidesing things like others have pointed out. He's not nearly as unhinged on the issue as Fetterman, but he has been horribly weak and doesn't even call for a ceasefire, just a "pause".
I know you make a distinction between government officials and regular people, and thats good because i make sure to do that as well and often correct other hexbears when they inappropriately conflate them. Polling does show that 80% of "regular people" who are Democrats support a ceasefire after all. While only something like 13 US representatives and no Senators support that. So there definitly is a mismatch. Still, I think when nat_turner_overdrive said that progressives are fully behind Zionists and their genocide, he was talking more about progressive politicians rather than regular people. And really, the only two "progressive" politicians (at least in the federal government) who have been consistently good on this issue are Tlaib and Cori Bush. Even Omar waffled.
Hey, I came to very similar conclusions regarding nat’s comments.
Yeah, I think from an American perspective Fetterman is considered progressive. That’s mostly because he supports American progressive policy proposals…things like nationalized healthcare (Medicare for all), free college educations, paid family leave, affordable housing, etc. I know these things are common sense for most of the rest of the world, but America is especially barbaric towards its citizens, so those of us on the left are still fighting for these basic human decencies. Fetterman included.
Where Fetterman really lost me is with his handling of the war in Gaza. I’ve heard his position described as a political calculation, and a poor one at that, but I think there’s more to it. Not sure if you saw the video of him being asked very reasonable questions about a ceasefire by one of his constituents, a former university professor…but in it, he totally ignored the guy, and had a security thug literally shove him 30 feet out a nearby door into the street. That level of callousness tells me there’s something more to his position, although admittedly I’m not intimately familiar with Fetterman as a political figure, and wasn’t quite sure if his reaction was resulting from post-stroke trauma or what.
On the matter of Bernie, yeah I wholly agree he has been very weak on this. That’s been a defining feature of Bernie throughout his whole career though. He’s pretty much always had the right idea policy-wise, but he’s just too nice. Nothing’s going to get done by playing patty-cakes with the establishment, and I just don’t think he has it in him to fight aggressively. Especially after “shooting his shot” in the past couple of election cycles. Bernie mistakenly thought the DNC believed in democracy and would let him win the nomination fair and square if he had the voters. Clearly not the case.
imho, American progressives must form a new party in order to seize power, and the Dems and republicans can fold into the uniform corporate party they already comprise. I think MAGA would likely fall off a cliff as a result of this, losing much of their power. Its my hope that progressive leaders like Tlaib, Cori, Ro Khanna, and the rest of the squad will lead this effort but it’s unclear how affected they are by the time they’ve already spent in the capitol of corruption.
What do u think of hypothetical politics that technically could exist but are unlikely to?
Idk why but you saying that makes me wonder about other ideals that contradict eachother but could coexist because people might have contradictory incoherant opinions
meanwhile, progressives in the US who would describe NK as a human rights disaster are fully behind the Zionists and their genocide
is just the latest remix of Bush Jr's "Axis of Evil" speech.
I can't imagine how the logistics of a NK to Gaza support network is supposed to even function. Yes, it makes Kim look cool on here, but none of it really passes the smell test. Not when the US is impounding Iranian cargo ships with impunity and suffocating the entire Levant with surveillance tech.
Unless NKorea has a teleporter, I'm not clear on how anything they might try to send can reach anyone currently in Gaza.
The DPRK has been supporting Palestine for decades - this isn't BS or new
I have seen at least two pictures of Hamas militants with what were identified as North Korean made RPGs. I think they're able to get supplies into Gaza the same way Hamas gets other supplies in.
Conflict zones like the middle east are hot markets for arms dealers and surplus materiel tend to accumulate there. I doubt there's any direct conduit between the two countries though
Identified by whom? The same folks that gave us "40 decapitated babies", "they bombed their own hospital", and "we did DNA testing on a random skull fragment to confirm Hamas killed Shani Nicole Louk"?
The Hamas group has a (likely entirely overstated) tunnel network across borders and a (likely entirely overstated) Mediterranean smuggling operation. That gets you a very limited set of imports from Egypt and perhaps Lebanon, Syria, Cyprus, or Turkey if they can really stretch it without the IDF noticing. None of these countries are doing regular direct trade with a small largely agrarian country on the opposite side of Asia. Nothing from North Korea is getting through the Suez Canal, nevermind it getting packed in across the entire length of Russia. Certainly not a militia's worth of rocket propelled grenades. Come the fuck on.
This shit is almost certainly all home grown. From Egypt or Syria? Very likely. Robbed from the Israelis? Definitely possible. Brought in from Iraq? Sure. Brought in from Iran? Maybe. Brought in from Ukraine? Not outside the bounds of possibility. Brought in from the opposite side of the hemisphere? Give me a fucking break. Might as well claim they're receiving arms from Haiti or Nunavut.
real north korean arms are in the levant from when the USSR facilitated them sending arms there, it's not at all unbelievable they're genuine but a bit beyond the pale to suggest korea specifically shipped it to Hamas recently. the news mega is a little weird about id'ing weapon provenance and extrapolating direct shipments/support when even iranian weapons are very likely mostly from middle men procuring them from the direct support iran gives iraqi groups or hezbollah
No, the identification was not produced by the IOF, but other users in the news mega. Anyway you're clearly an expert so I'll defer to you.
You don't have to be an expert on arms trade to know that two countries under intense surveillance and at vast distances will have a very difficult time conducting an arms trade.
"How could this be possible?" isn't a question anyone seems capable of seriously answering.
People have literally answered you, and you would probably get even better engagement asking the question straightforwardly, instead of rhetorically, trying to insist that it isn't happening based on vibes.
NK -> China -> Ship to Egypt -> Tunnel to Gaza
Or NK -> Russia -> Syria -> Lebanese Hezbollah -> Gaza
What's israel gonna do, inspect every piece of cargo from China that goes through the suez canal?
Dude DPRK has been involved in materially supporting Palestine for decades. You are not adequately informed here to speak so confidently
How is the DPRK smuggling this shit in? What is that supply line even supposed to look like?
Back in 2010, a bunch of Turkish activists tried to send a flotilla to Gaza. They were intercepted and attacked by Israeli forces. That was before the renewed Israeli conflict with Lebanon and the US bombing of Syria, and when the southern border with Egypt wasn't sealed shut. You can't just move in and out of Gaza unmolested. No more than you could take a sailboat to Cuba.
How the fuck is the DPRK getting hundreds of rounds of munitions into a country that struggles to keep itself fed? This seems like a huge stretch to simply take at face value.
DPRK: We are materially supporting Palestinian resistance
Hamas: We receive material support from DPRK
Palestinian Protesters: Holding up signs of KJU and Putin
Western Media: North Korea is arming Hamas
You: But HOW COULD IT BE??!
you could explain how international arms smuggling works and be a snarky shit at the same time
How am I supposed to know about international arm smuggling routes? This user doesn’t either. All parties involved agree it’s happening
North Korean ships to Russia
Russia ships to domestic and regional arms dealers
Arms dealers smuggle their weapons into Palestine
Turkey, Syria, and Egypt are all next to Israel. There are people there who have sympathies with Palestine but not Russia/NK, or with both Palestine and Russia/NK, or with none of them and want a paycheck. The underworld is full of strange bedfellows. The CIA and MI5/6 were once filled with communists.
There are also reports that some IDF units have been smuggling weapons to Hamas as well. If you’re lucky to turn a border guard or someone else critical to the supply chain, you can pass through undetected.
NK -> China -> Egypt -> Gaza
Even without Chinese support NK can probably smuggle things into China. Israel and the US does not have any ability to monitor every shipment from China to Egypt directly, let alone all goods going through the suez canal. There's definitely tunnels from Gaza to Egypt.
I mean, Hezbollah was literally trained by the DPRK who also taught them the tunneling system. They fought very well against Israel in 2006.
HUH
When you thought NK couldn't be more based
Long tunnel
deleted by creator
Containersubmarines ...obviously.
If you think quantum mechanics is weird and crazy, wait until you hear what juche mechanics can do.
Juche entanglment
Im sure there are ways, Hamas weapons and missiles come from somewhere.
i thought the missiles came from a hardware store or salvaged building supplies
North Korea borders Russia, and Russia is connected to Palestine through land and through friendly nations. Also, you don’t need to have a North Korean physically smuggle weapons and food to Palestine. You just need a lot of money to pay someone near the territories to do it for you.
We live in such a stupid fucking bullshit reality. This was exactly my thought too.
liberals, sure. there aren’t progressives supporting genocide.
'Progressive' is a marketing label not an ideology. Probably shouldn't have been used in the first place.
“Progressive” in 1920 meant a supporter of eugenics, race science and lobotomies. So called “public hygiene” freaks
Some things never change.
progressives are liberals, and if they won't call for an immediate ceasefire they're absolutely supporting genocide
Progressives are leftists, but applying the liberal label to them doesn’t make much sense in American politics. Liberals in America are center right on a global spectrum, and ultimately very pro corporate. Progressives aren’t these things.
Perhaps you’re conflating government officials with the civilian population they supposedly represent? Consider that there has never been a time in American history where the people have been less represented by the ruling class in government, and that includes all political ideologies. Normal people in America don’t want war or genocide. Arms manufacturing companies and banks do, because they think they can make trillions of dollars from it.
Progressives are leftists in America where the left to right spectrum spans from liberals on one end to liberals on the other end. In reality, they are not leftists because they are not explicitly anti-capitalist. Capitalism is a right wing economic model and even if you're not "pro-corporate" if all you want is a better managed right wing economic system, you're a liberal.
Interesting perspective, am going to think on that. Makes a lot of sense.
Sounds like you've already received some good food for thought, but I do have another quesiton for you. Within the American spectrum, would you consider Fetterman a "progressive"? He's generally regarded as being one in my experience, at least on domestic issues. And have you see the rhetoric he's been engaging with since October 7th, outright opposing a ceasefire and so on?
There's also the problem of Bernie, pretty much the progressive in America, equivocating and both sidesing things like others have pointed out. He's not nearly as unhinged on the issue as Fetterman, but he has been horribly weak and doesn't even call for a ceasefire, just a "pause".
I know you make a distinction between government officials and regular people, and thats good because i make sure to do that as well and often correct other hexbears when they inappropriately conflate them. Polling does show that 80% of "regular people" who are Democrats support a ceasefire after all. While only something like 13 US representatives and no Senators support that. So there definitly is a mismatch. Still, I think when nat_turner_overdrive said that progressives are fully behind Zionists and their genocide, he was talking more about progressive politicians rather than regular people. And really, the only two "progressive" politicians (at least in the federal government) who have been consistently good on this issue are Tlaib and Cori Bush. Even Omar waffled.
Hey, I came to very similar conclusions regarding nat’s comments.
Yeah, I think from an American perspective Fetterman is considered progressive. That’s mostly because he supports American progressive policy proposals…things like nationalized healthcare (Medicare for all), free college educations, paid family leave, affordable housing, etc. I know these things are common sense for most of the rest of the world, but America is especially barbaric towards its citizens, so those of us on the left are still fighting for these basic human decencies. Fetterman included.
Where Fetterman really lost me is with his handling of the war in Gaza. I’ve heard his position described as a political calculation, and a poor one at that, but I think there’s more to it. Not sure if you saw the video of him being asked very reasonable questions about a ceasefire by one of his constituents, a former university professor…but in it, he totally ignored the guy, and had a security thug literally shove him 30 feet out a nearby door into the street. That level of callousness tells me there’s something more to his position, although admittedly I’m not intimately familiar with Fetterman as a political figure, and wasn’t quite sure if his reaction was resulting from post-stroke trauma or what.
On the matter of Bernie, yeah I wholly agree he has been very weak on this. That’s been a defining feature of Bernie throughout his whole career though. He’s pretty much always had the right idea policy-wise, but he’s just too nice. Nothing’s going to get done by playing patty-cakes with the establishment, and I just don’t think he has it in him to fight aggressively. Especially after “shooting his shot” in the past couple of election cycles. Bernie mistakenly thought the DNC believed in democracy and would let him win the nomination fair and square if he had the voters. Clearly not the case.
imho, American progressives must form a new party in order to seize power, and the Dems and republicans can fold into the uniform corporate party they already comprise. I think MAGA would likely fall off a cliff as a result of this, losing much of their power. Its my hope that progressive leaders like Tlaib, Cori, Ro Khanna, and the rest of the squad will lead this effort but it’s unclear how affected they are by the time they’ve already spent in the capitol of corruption.
There are progressives both sidesing and wringing their hands and defending Biden and talking about how they denounce Hamas the most actually
What do u think of hypothetical politics that technically could exist but are unlikely to?
Idk why but you saying that makes me wonder about other ideals that contradict eachother but could coexist because people might have contradictory incoherant opinions