I don't get how libs can tolerate being taken for granted like this. They're not being mature or practical - they're accepting mistreatment by an establishment sworn to serve them.

Trump and his supporters aren't better, but at least he's telling them what they want to hear. He at least made sure to get checks out to people and had his signature stamped on them.

I dunno, at least there's a strategy there. And Biden has had four fucking years and he's done nothing to get people motivated to vote or even register to vote. Not even going into his participation in genocide, it's just a lack of strategy to the point of self-sabotage.

And the entire Democratic party is complicit in all of it. It's like they want to lose, because all I'm hearing are about how bad trump is/was. And it's like, I was fucking there. And after three years, all they can offer is to give him a verbal reprimand and coverage on every major news network, speech, and social media posting.

It's just mind-blowing to think of the wasted time and energy on the part of the US political system.

  • zed_proclaimer [he/him]
    hexbear
    46
    5 months ago

    Where do you libs come from? AOC supported the fucking coup in Bolivia of course she supports Israel and condemns Hamas.

    https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/media/press-releases/statement-rep-ocasio-cortez-violence-israel-and-palestine

    Omar, Tlaib, all of them repeat anti-Russia propaganda and push for more funding for Ukraine. They are all warmonger class traitors

    • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
      hexbear
      1
      5 months ago

      The issue is the Squad funding Israel's genocide and warmongering. We can take up the issue of Bolivia some other time if you're still around.

      The press release condemns Hamas for the October 7th attack. That's reasonable to most except those that sanction political violence as if it ever works the way we think it does. I mean, Hamas killed 1200 Israelis on that day, believing political violence was justified...and look at Gaza now...but I digress....

      This press release says

      “It’s welcome news that Representatives Ocasio-Cortez, Pocan, and McCollum, along with dozens of their House colleagues, are urging the Biden Administration to establish an immediate bilateral ceasefire in Israel-Palestine and asking for greater humanitarian access in all parts of Gaza,” said Hassan El-Tayyab, legislative director for Middle East policy at FCNL.

      That's definitely not active support of Israeli genocide or warmongering.

      Moreover, Biden is having to bypass Congress altogether to get Israel aid. That takes any culpability away from the Squad imho since they clearly oppose giving more money to Israel.

      So, again, the issue is the Squad funding Israel's genocide and warmongering. Do you have any other evidence that they're doing that?

      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
        hexbear
        37
        5 months ago

        those that sanction political violence as if it ever works the way we think it does

        Except for every successful revolution. The October Revolution, Chinese Revolution, Cuban Revolutuon, Vietnam as examples.

        The press release condemns Hamas for the October 7th attack. That's reasonable

        That's not reasonable to us here because we're communists. Condemning Hamas is wrong. I'm not suprised the Squad has taken that position because they're a bunch of libs

        • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
          hexbear
          2
          5 months ago

          That’s not reasonable to us here because we’re communists. Condemning Hamas is wrong. I’m not suprised the Squad has taken that position because they’re a bunch of libs

          ...this is definitely off the topic originally discussed, I'm curious:

          It's not enough for you that they actively oppose Israeli genocide; rather, they have to also support Hamas in their struggle against Israel?

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            hexbear
            30
            5 months ago

            It's not enough for you that they actively oppose Israeli genocide; rather, they have to also support Hamas in their struggle against Israel?

            Centrism is support of the status quo. Nominally opposing Israel and Hamas is opposing change to the current trajectory and nothing better. Hamas represents the most viable current expression of the political will of Palestinians, hence its broad support by them, so any reasonable anti-imperialist will support them until such a time comes as they are no longer the most viable or they no longer have a war that it is productive for them to fight (i.e. once Palestine is freed from river to sea).

          • @robinn_IV
            hexbear
            28
            5 months ago

            It's not enough for you that they actively oppose Israeli genocide; rather, they have to also support Hamas in their struggle against Israel?

            Yes.

          • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
            hexbear
            28
            5 months ago

            they

            I don't care about the Squad. I don't support them or any US politician and no one else here does either. So its not a question of me thinking what they are doing is enough or not.

            Leaving them out of it. We support the Palestinian struggle. We supported it when the PLO was the main force, and we support it now that Hamas is. The violence of the oppressed can never be equated to the violence of the opressor. Condemning Hamas is against the Palestinian struggle

          • zed_proclaimer [he/him]
            hexbear
            21
            5 months ago

            Hamas are the only people fighting Israel (in addition to Hezbollah, Yemen, Iraqi resistance, Syria and Iran). These are the only people doing anything about the genocide, yes you have to support them if you don’t support genocide. Literally everyone else on earth is standing by watching doing nothing

            • silent_water [she/her]
              hexbear
              9
              5 months ago

              aren't they in alliance with local communist and anarchist groups who supported the 7/10 attacks and continue to fight? not taking away from your point - just adding to the groups of involved resistance fighters.

              • zed_proclaimer [he/him]
                hexbear
                9
                5 months ago

                Yes I should have said the axis of resistance are the ones fighting (which includes other Palestinian groups in addition to Hamas)

      • ElChapoDeChapo [he/him, comrade/them]
        hexbear
        33
        5 months ago

        The press release condemns Hamas for the October 7th attack. That's reasonable to most except those that sanction political violence as if it ever works the way we think it does.

        What options did they have other than armed resistance, they already tried peaceful protest and got their kneecaps obliterated by snipers

        I mean, Hamas killed 1200 Israelis on that day, believing political violence was justified...and look at Gaza now...but I digress....

        The IOF killed most of those people on Oct 7 but don't let the facts get in the way of propaganda blaming the victims

        • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
          hexbear
          1
          5 months ago

          Oof. Almost got baited there. Touché.

          I think it's clear that the Squad isn't funding Israel's genocide and warmongering and staunchly stands opposed to it.

          • @robinn_IV
            hexbear
            30
            5 months ago

            I could condemn slavery and oppose all violent resistance against it. My condemnation would not be worth two grains of salt.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        hexbear
        32
        5 months ago

        That's reasonable to most except those that sanction political violence as if it ever works the way we think it does.

        Look, I hate the American Revolutionary War as much as the next guy, but I don't think this is an accurate characterization

        Oh, sorry, you were probably thinking of something more like the Haitian Revolution. I wonder what the differences is thonk us-foreign-policy

      • @robinn_IV
        hexbear
        32
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        I mean, Hamas killed 1200 Israelis on that day, believing political violence was justified...and look at Gaza now...but I digress....

        Haaretz: “According to [comments by Tuval Escapa, the kibbutz’s security coordinator], only on Monday night and only after the commanders in the field made difficult decisions—including shelling houses on their occupants in order to eliminate the terrorists without knowing whether the Israelis in those buildings were alive or dead—the IDF completed the takeover of the kibbutz.”

        An air force colonel said that Israeli airstrikes may have intentionally killed Israeli captives rather than let them be taken to Gaza. Speaking in Hebrew about the airstrikes, Colonel Nof Erez told a Haaretz podcast in November that “the Hannibal Directive was apparently applied” and that 7 October “was a mass Hannibal.”

        Ynet (Israeli government affiliated): Israel fired from helicopters into crowd of festival goers indiscriminately (blamed on “Hamas deception”)

        Regardless, let’s look at the nonviolent approach. Have you heard of the Great Match of Return? Palestinians would be condemned to a slow death if they did not resist. Take your liberal condemnation of violence and shove it.

      • alcoholicorn [comrade/them, doe/deer]
        hexbear
        32
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        Hamas killed 1200 Israelis on that day

        You are using Palestine's resistance of occupation and ethnic cleansing to justify their occupation and ethnic cleansing.

        Nothing Hamas or anyone does can change the fact that they are justified in resisting Israel's occupation and ethnic cleansing.

        • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
          hexbear
          1
          5 months ago

          Y'all keep jumping down my throat for something I never said. Similarly, y'all hate on The Squad for a position they don't hold either.

            • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
              hexbear
              1
              5 months ago

              The attack is the only thing they've condemned, since they're opposed to violence. They've also opposed Israel and maintained support for Palestine because they're opposed to violence.

              • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
                hexbear
                30
                5 months ago

                You're equating the violence of the oppressed with the violence of the oppressor, which is not equivalent. Opposing Isreal and Hamas is just supporting the status quo, which is genocide

      • WashedAnus [he/him]
        hexbear
        21
        5 months ago

        Biden doesn't have to bypass Congress to get Israel aid. Who would vote against it? The evangelical cultists of the republican party would do anything to bring about their apocalyptic vision of the second coming and no democrat would vote against it. They're bypassing congress so they don't have to inform the world what they're sending to arm the genocide machine.

        • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
          hexbear
          1
          5 months ago

          They’re bypassing congress so they don’t have to inform the world what they’re sending to arm the genocide machine.

          Biden's bypassing Congress was reported by national media outlets. If what you say is true, then it was probably the most ineffective way to do anything inconspicuous .

          There's probably another explanation that you're dismissing out of hand

          Biden doesn’t have to bypass Congress to get Israel aid. Who would vote against it?

          I bet there are people that would vote against it and that's why Biden bypassed Congress. Until that legislation comes up though, we're kinda at an impasse empirically.

          • WashedAnus [he/him]
            hexbear
            26
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            I didn't say "inform the world that they're sending," I said "inform the world what they're sending." Bypassing congress with the national security bullshit means they don't have to say, "Yeah, we're giving them white phosphorous and cluster bombs to commit war crimes."

      • DengistDonnieDarko [none/use name]
        hexbear
        20
        5 months ago

        Hamas killed 1200 Israelis on that day, believing political violence was justified...and look at Gaza now...but I digress...

        Damn, sucks that they couldn't get around to shooting you too! Maybe next time

        • @PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
          hexbear
          2
          5 months ago

          Hey hey! Someone with evidence!

          The Grayzone seems suspect as hell, but some of the links to which it leads are high quality.

          I think this is worth considering in the future...thanks.

          • silent_water [she/her]
            hexbear
            19
            5 months ago

            their sources are all clearly laid out. they're an anti-imperialist, leftist magazine but that means they have to be heavily cited because they're opposing the state department narrative and don't get the benefit of the doubt. I think in time you'll find in time that their reporting is generally pretty accurate.

          • emizeko [they/them]
            hexbear
            15
            5 months ago

            https://new.thecradle.co/articles/how-israeli-forces-trapped-and-killed-ravers-at-the-nova-festival