Just because socialist police will exist doesn’t mean they will do what capitalist police do. Note: China has a ton of socialist cops and they’ve killed 19 people ever in the whole people’s republic’s history, mostly violent criminals.
While China's rate of death to law enforcement is really good, you're wrong. 19 is just the number of boxes on the Wikipedia page (which doesn't even have any deaths for the first 57 years of the PRC's existance). In one event alone at least 28 people were killed by police. That event is also mentioned on the Wikipedia page, albeit with a dead link to a terrible website as the source.
(Totaling up the deaths on the Wikipedia page gives me 72 killed by Chinese LEO since 2006, but they cite RFA so take it with a grain of salt)
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I appreciate that the US is a special case w.r.t. the proliferation of guns, and you can't hocus the guns out of socialist cops and expect great results if wider society is still armed.
That being said, I think China is such a great example precisely because it's one of very few countries that have disarmed police (within a wider disarmed society) an obviously humane policy with a great effect.
Nobody here is arguing that having your beat cops not armed to teeth is a bad idea, this conversation started with a comment stating that Bakunin’s quote is a good sentiment and that we don’t want proletarian cops. We do need proletarian cops and that’s a brute fact, their various specifics of tiered armaments is not the subject of discussion - their very existence is.
Bakunin thinks there should be no people’s stick. This is deluded. We must wield the people’s stick to suppress the bourgeoisie out of existence.
Bakunin wants no proletarian cops whatsoever right, no armed bodies of men enforcing state violence? That’s a bad, idealist sentiment and not a realistic or revolutionary one. Such bodies will exist and must exist. It does us no favors to play word games to pretend we have abolished police when we haven’t and sets people up for disillusionment when the revolution doesn’t instantly create anarcho-communism without any legal enforcers.
I'd send people with handguns to stop active shooters, stop saboteurs, stop criminal gangs, suppress reactionaries, break up cults, protect production lines, etc. yes.
Where did I say cops should do wellness checks? Complete leap.
The communist "not cops" are going to be strapped because guns are everywhere and reactionaries have them. Sorry to burst your bubble yet again.
Lmao right that's just cops with extra steps
Exactly why there will be proletarian cops and denying that is denying simple reality.
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Really, you'd send people with handguns to do a wellness checkup?
Just because socialist police will exist doesn’t mean they will do what capitalist police do. Note: China has a ton of socialist cops and they’ve killed 19 people ever in the whole people’s republic’s history, mostly violent criminals.
While China's rate of death to law enforcement is really good, you're wrong. 19 is just the number of boxes on the Wikipedia page (which doesn't even have any deaths for the first 57 years of the PRC's existance). In one event alone at least 28 people were killed by police. That event is also mentioned on the Wikipedia page, albeit with a dead link to a terrible website as the source.
(Totaling up the deaths on the Wikipedia page gives me 72 killed by Chinese LEO since 2006, but they cite RFA so take it with a grain of salt)
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I appreciate that the US is a special case w.r.t. the proliferation of guns, and you can't hocus the guns out of socialist cops and expect great results if wider society is still armed.
That being said, I think China is such a great example precisely because it's one of very few countries that have disarmed police (within a wider disarmed society) an obviously humane policy with a great effect.
Nobody here is arguing that having your beat cops not armed to teeth is a bad idea, this conversation started with a comment stating that Bakunin’s quote is a good sentiment and that we don’t want proletarian cops. We do need proletarian cops and that’s a brute fact, their various specifics of tiered armaments is not the subject of discussion - their very existence is.
Bakunin thinks there should be no people’s stick. This is deluded. We must wield the people’s stick to suppress the bourgeoisie out of existence.
Bakunin wants no proletarian cops whatsoever right, no armed bodies of men enforcing state violence? That’s a bad, idealist sentiment and not a realistic or revolutionary one. Such bodies will exist and must exist. It does us no favors to play word games to pretend we have abolished police when we haven’t and sets people up for disillusionment when the revolution doesn’t instantly create anarcho-communism without any legal enforcers.
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I'd send people with handguns to stop active shooters, stop saboteurs, stop criminal gangs, suppress reactionaries, break up cults, protect production lines, etc. yes.
Where did I say cops should do wellness checks? Complete leap.