https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1765648049794105626
Bakunin also thought that the American north was oppressing the south by forcing them back into the union
Dude was dumb as hell and that isn't sectarianism. Kropotkin, from what I've read, has not had any absurd takes like this.
Damn that is definitely one of the worst takes of all time and almost indistinguishable from what a dumbfuck chud would say today.
Meanwhile, Marx wrote a letter to Lincoln encouraging him to keep fighting to end slavery.
i think they're saying that "The Confederacy was oppressed by the Tyrant Lincoln" is a very stupid take
When your moral compass is guided by “government doing things to other people”
This is the problem with viewing the state as the primary nexus of oppression. Power people free of the state are totally willing to do awful things themselves without needing to form any kind of official government to do it.
Because it frames the civil war as a conflict primarily about the south breaking free from northern domination and liberating itself from an oppressor instead of what it actually was which was a war about ending slavery in the United States, which is objectively a good thing. It just shows Bakunin was not thinking very materially.
Well, to be more accurate it started as a war over the expansion of slavery into newly acquired territories. You know, bleeding Kansas and whatnot.
Kropotkin called on anarchists to take sides on WWI against "German aggression". Fortunately most anarchists at the time realized that was dumb as hell and it ruined his reputation for a good while. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_the_Sixteen
Guy probably had brainworms about the Napoleonic wars. Still, not nearly as absurd as bakunins takes, kropotkins reasoning did have a grain of truth to it in that the Weimar Republic was highly destabilized and was a toss up for the communists and fascists early on
Really nailing the condescending aristocrat way of thought. Proles have no minds of their own, so if Marx "lost" a debate they would all abandon marxist communism in favour of anarchists because that's what the people who think decided.
Also Marx would have never lost a debate
Note: I have no idea what debate this is referring to
GET BACK HERE, MOTHERFUCKER!!!! THIS DEBATE ISNT OVER!!!!*actual quote from the Hague Congress in 1872
**may not be historically accurate
The question whether objective truth can be attributed to human thinking is not a question of theory but is a practical question. Man must prove the truth — i.e. the reality and power, the this-sidedness of his thinking in practice. The dispute over the reality or non-reality of thinking that is isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question.
very great man of history too. Bakunin was such a powerful high level debatelord that surely he would have pushed the tides in his favor!
The world might be very different is Musk had made it to Mars on time and enabled the billionaire faction to die in space.
Bakunin's views on the Jewish Question are what really brought Musk on board
Musk probably just saw the term "Jewish question" and got on board without any awareness of Bakunin's view
His brain is so chemically altered the brain worms are in a constant state state of delirium.
Elon Musk, one of the great minds of leftist theory
I appreciate that you used the plural form of "boyfriend" and not the possessive.
REJECT ANARCHO BIDENISM
THE TIME FOR ANARCHO MUSKISM IS AT HAND
An evergeen tweet as real as you and me!
Confused? Well good ol'
said that he was a socialist. I cannot make this shit up!
That has to be one of the silliest quotes of all time and if he had said that in front of Marx he would've been laughed into hell.
Um excuse you, that's the Tesla brand stick, it's much higher quality and more expensive than your plebian stick, you can tell by the crisp dark bruises it leaves on me
Musk unironically identifying as an ancap would be so fucking funny. Vibes based political order.
I think it's just a tiny bit silly when MLs start criticizing Bakunin for antisemitism. Because, yes, Bakunin was a virulent antisemite, and unlike Marx he himself was not Jewish nor can you point to any broader structural critique. But, I mean, guys, let's not pretend that ML movements don't have a bad history of antisemitism.
But, I mean, guys, let's not pretend that ML movements don't have a bad history of antisemitism.
Please point to me where this "bad history of antisemitism" in Marxism-Leninism is, I cannot find it.
As far as I am concerned, Marxists have more often than not been accused of being a Jewish conspiracy (see: "Judeo-Bolshevism"). The Bolsheviks were mostly composed of Jews. The USSR liberated Auschwitz. Stalin played a pivotal role in the creation of Israel.
Stalin played a pivotal role in the creation of Israel.
Uhhh. I don't think that's the anti-antisemitism flex you intended it to be.
I heard Stalin preferred to have the Jewish state be in the USSR, and didn’t actually support “Israel.” I don’t remember the source.
Correct, Stalin was opposed to the continued colonization of Palestine by the British and then the Zionists. He was overruled by portions of the party that had Zionist connections. The USSR did participate and help create Israel (cringe) but Stalin opposed it.
I know. Israel is not a good country, but I think it's an acceptable example given the historical context of the 1940s.
It's not even about the current context, though.
It's always been a project that was set up by antisemites and imperialists/colonizers. There are various posts here linking the foundation of the Zionist entity with, literally, Nazi Germany.
It did not take very long for them to reverse course on their support for this project though and attempt to offer their own alternative autonomous zone in the soviet union instead.
You are analysing the situation with the benefit of the internet and hindsight. It was significantly less clear at the time with the information they had.
I mean her example's dumb but like the general idea that some ML movements have had reactionary tendencies is true. Like ML thinkers and movements have been notably queerphobic and especially transphobic. Like both of the notable ML parties in my own country are notorious for their transphobia, to the degree that despite being a massive liberal JK Rowling frequently speaks well of them and even quoted On Authority in support of CPGB-ML once - for all their flaws, the Trotskyite and anarchist orgs in the UK don't have anywhere near the same level of transphobia within them.
TERF island doesnt count, its in your water supply or something
As far as I'm aware the trots don't have this problem though (and if they do they're not on the level of publicly putting out things cheering on Rishi Sunak squashing scottish pro trans laws and claiming he's defending women from male cross dressers entering female only spaces), and some of the anarchists actually helped me get HRT.
To claim it's just a Britain thing completely ignores all the British far leftist orgs that aren't transphobic. The only notable ML org to clearly not be transphobic was RFB, which collapsed years ago.
Please point to me where this "bad history of antisemitism" in Marxism-Leninism is, I cannot find it.
If you don't think Suslov was a virulent antisemite and his campaigns under Brezhnev were antisemitic, then there is no meaningful definition of the word "Antisemite" that you would accept and you are not worth talking to.
The difference is bakunin is still taken seriously as a "great thinker". Most people have probably never even heard of Suslov. I also am having a hard time finding specific antisemitic things that he said because of how minor a figure he was. In fact most of the info I can find on him is from a video game mod
He was literally one of the most significant figures in the Soviet union during the Brezhnev era, like he's right under the troika itself but okay. Let's ignore him. Let's just go for the anti-cosmopolitan campaign itself.
Imagine unironically parroting anti-communist lies about the history of the Soviet Union.
Then why is it so hard to find shit he said on this if he was such a virulent antisemite? Like I want actual quotes and writings attributed to him on this matter if he was supposedly that influential
Could you provide a source for Mikhail Suslov being an antisemite? Wikipedia says absolutely nothing about him being an antisemite.
Regardless of whether Suslov was an antisemite or not, this is not the time for Communists and Anarchists to accuse each other of antisemitism, considering that Zionists are currently cynically accusing all their critics of antisemitism as a smear tactic.
I mean I know for a fact that's wrong given that his personal wikipedia page is literally classified under "Antisemitism in the soviet union", and also mentions his personal beef with the jewish antifascist committee, and his role in the anti-cosmopolitan campaign. If you're just looking at wikipedia, you could check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union and search for "Suslov", but of course wikipedia is a biased source on soviet matters. If you want a non shitty source on the issue the Soviet union had with nationalism then The Revenge of the Past by Ronald Suny is good,
There was literally nothing in the entire body of the Wikipedia article that said or suggested that Suslov was an antisemite.
On the "Antisemitism in the Soviet Union" article, Suslov is only mentioned once in passing: "Many of Brezhnev's close advisors, most principally Mikhail Suslov, were also fervent antisemites.[34]" The only citation is an anticommunist newspaper.
Could you just... copy and paste some quotes from this book you're citing? I'm not going to read a whole book to figure out whether some random obscure character in the Soviet Union was an antisemite.
your source is that you googled "USSR anti-semitism" and clicked on the first NATOpedia link provided to you. Then you mock other's ignorance lmao
Marx is Jewish and his "anti-semitism" is on a completely different level than people like Proudhon and Bakunin.
Proudhon/Bakunin: Purge this vile race from France, kill them all, take their women, rid us of this plague of rats
Marx: The Jewish culture currently is pro-capitalist and that's indicative of certain historical trends
You: These are exactly the same
can you not read? I literally pointed out the difference between Marx and Bakunin's antisemitic comments.
while you're waiting for the 1 day ban to expire, I do want to say that I appreciate you editing out the ableist language.
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