Today, German lawmakers are rewriting bylaws and pushing for constitutional amendments to ensure courts and state parliaments can provide checks against a future, more powerful AfD. Some have even launched a campaign to ban the AfD altogether.
Banning fascist organizations is not only democratic, it's one of the bare minimum tasks a democratic society should perform in order to protect itself. Personally I think their solution is a little weak. Fascists will always wiggle around courts and laws, then use those very same laws to their advantage. It's what they do. They fill in the gaps that liberal societies are always going to have, yet endlessly try to repair.
The best option is to shoot fascists in the head, without hesitation. That's not a metaphor for anything, I mean literally line them up against a brick wall and shoot them with guns. Then announce you'll do the same to any further fascists you discover. Drive all potential fascists into hiding, make them cower in fear and remain powerless. That's the only thing that has ever worked.
YMMV on the CDU vis a vis being fascists but I'd argue you can look back at Adenauers "Radikalenerlass" ("Radical Decree" or something) that purported to stop extremists from both sides from holding certain important jobs and somehow managed to find 1000 left wing extremists for every right winger in '70s germany.
Yes, because it's so easy to murder a few people. We just need to label people we don't like as Nazis and shoot them. What could possibly go wrong? And when we are at it, I think my neighbour is a nazi too, let me shoot him.
It's way easier to shoot a few nazis than to let them form political organizations, raise money, and present themselves as a threat. Yes, that's true.
You talk like it's difficult or debatable who qualifies as a nazi. It's not. They always expose themselves and announce their intentions clearly. This isn't a matter of people who we have a disagreement with. They're not simply people we don't like, they're people who threaten to kill us. This is a matter of fascists who publicly announce their intentions to pursue racist, bigoted murder against me and people like me. It is part of AfD's standard platform that LGBTQ people receive fewer rights than straight people, and that all foreigners should be rounded up and deported. Those are fascist threats, not some disagreement on who we like. They only historical method of dealing with these fascists is to destroy them before they destroy us.
sounds like you see more nazis than we do. We don't have this kind of problem of not understanding who is who. We know who the enemy is and what they deserve. if your understanding of fascists is this shallow it's no wonder you'd sympathize with them
If you wanna insult me please call me a queer Marxist Stalinist devil worshiper or something, because that would be more accurate. Call me a North Korea apologist because that's true. I'd also readily accept insults like baizuo or first world crakkker, because those are unfortunately also true.
i think fascist for you just means "scary person with bad ideas." if it's only a pejorative to you, rather than a specific identifiable movement, then you're not gonna get it. I recommend reading Robert O. Paxton, or Marxist theorists like Antonio Gramsci or (my personal favorite) the historian Perry Anderson. They've all written on the particular contours of fascist ideology and how to identify it, rather than treating it as simply a set of violent tendencies.
Now this is revealing. Those of use of the socialist/anarchist persuasions understand that violence is a tool and, as such, has both appropriate and inappropriate uses. You see violence as a mood, a vibe, a flow.
If you're fascist and antifascists come for you, you have a choice. You can give it up. You can go renounce what you said. You could just go on with the rest of your life and stop turning up at fascist rallies. Anti fascists probably aren't going to buy you a pint and be your best friend but they'll move on. But if you're a person of color, if you're trans, or a person with a disability or gay or Jewish, and fascists come for you, there is nothing you can do to make them happy except stop existing. If you're a political enemy of antifa, you can become a friend. If you're a political enemy of fascism, either they lose or you die.
I don't understand your point of saying the AfD are comparable to standard American Republicans as if that's a defense of them. I also believe Republicans should all be lined up and shot.
"So, you compare a country from what it came from, with all it’s imperfections. And those who demand instant perfection the day after the revolution, they go up and say “Are there civil liberties for the fascists? Are they gonna be allowed their newspapers and their radio programs, are they gonna be able to keep all their farms? The passion that some of our liberals feel, the day after the revolution, the passion and concern they feel for the fascists, the civil rights and civil liberties of those fascists who are dumping and destroying and murdering people before. Now the revolution has gotta be perfect, it’s gotta be flawless. Well that isn’t my criteria, my criteria is what happens to those people who couldn’t read? What happens to those babies that couldn’t eat, that died of hunger? And that’s why I support revolution. The revolution that feeds the children gets my support. "
Michael Parenti, 1986, “US Interventionism, the 3rd world, and the USSR,"
Yeah I just don't care about right-wingers and their precious civil rights. They're a fungus growing on the world from decaying capitalism. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever and don't regard them as valid political opponents. They're a death spiral menace to the world with nothing meaningful to contribute
The majority of the world aren't people actively involved in organizing and maintaining fascist organizations, right? If that's the case I don't give a shit about them. Keep those types powerless and isolated, remove the material conditions that give rise to fascist tendencies in the first place.
Why not kill Republicans by the way? Bush Jr. killed a million Iraqis. Trump mediated a genocide against Yemen. Mitch McConnell is already a walking zombie. What is gained from keeping them alive? I'm not talking about killing Republican voters or someone who has a bumper sticker. That's too much work to bother with. I'm talking about Republicans directly managing American empire for the benefit of capital. The average right wing voter is just some loser who deserves re-education.
Somehow I doubt that the millions of us in the lower classes who suffered from his régime would be that restrained.
In any case, it isn’t a question of one individual’s prescription. It is more a question of historic inevitability and necessity. I can’t say anything for sure, but should the lower classes directly confront Donald Trump and Mike Pence one day, I have a feeling that we’ll be just as forgiving as lower‐class Italians were of Benito Mussolini. Only a guess, though.
I don't think it's especially productive to kill people when imprisoning them is easy, as it would be with the resources in America, but I don't see why you are clutching your pearls this hard at a butcher of countless thousands being killed.
When have Republicans mass murdered their political dissidents? Another tool of fascists: extreme hyperbole.
If you think they're so dangerous to society, VOTE THEM OUT, reshape the system, hell the bar them from office! Massacring them just makes YOU the fascist
When have Republicans mass murdered their political dissidents?
Every war America has ever involved itself in, plus an absurd amount of massacred and lynched prisoners, civil rights activists and random black and indigenous people, plus every victim of America's fascist puppet governments abroad, plus everyone who starves to death in capitalist countries where food is locked up to rot, plus everyone who dies of covid due to our non-response, ect. We would literally be here all day if I wanted to list out everyone the American capitalist oligarchy and it's decorative "parties" has slaughtered on the altar of capital.
If you think they're so dangerous to society, VOTE THEM OUT, reshape the system
Oh, is it the most important election of our lifetime again already?
Massacring them just makes YOU the fascist
Lol, there's no shame in admitting you don't know what fascism is dude. It's not transmissible like Lycanthropy, and it's not When Violence. Also, how the fuck do you think the nazis were stopped. You think they were voted out?
Although if massacring nondescript "dissenters" is what makes a government fascist, I'm glad we at least share the correct opinion that the US is fascist.
Can I persuade you to actually read Luxemburg, instead of just embodying the West German co-opting of her? Specifically, I'm thinking of Sozialreform oder Revolution?
I think they're saying that liberal "democracies", as soon as they need to, will use the exact same censorship that they claim "autocracies" use, and which not using is the entire source of their supposed moral superiority.
You see, democracy is when...
Banning fascist organizations is not only democratic, it's one of the bare minimum tasks a democratic society should perform in order to protect itself. Personally I think their solution is a little weak. Fascists will always wiggle around courts and laws, then use those very same laws to their advantage. It's what they do. They fill in the gaps that liberal societies are always going to have, yet endlessly try to repair.
The best option is to shoot fascists in the head, without hesitation. That's not a metaphor for anything, I mean literally line them up against a brick wall and shoot them with guns. Then announce you'll do the same to any further fascists you discover. Drive all potential fascists into hiding, make them cower in fear and remain powerless. That's the only thing that has ever worked.
YMMV on the CDU vis a vis being fascists but I'd argue you can look back at Adenauers "Radikalenerlass" ("Radical Decree" or something) that purported to stop extremists from both sides from holding certain important jobs and somehow managed to find 1000 left wing extremists for every right winger in '70s germany.
Yes, because it's so easy to murder a few people. We just need to label people we don't like as Nazis and shoot them. What could possibly go wrong? And when we are at it, I think my neighbour is a nazi too, let me shoot him.
It's way easier to shoot a few nazis than to let them form political organizations, raise money, and present themselves as a threat. Yes, that's true.
You talk like it's difficult or debatable who qualifies as a nazi. It's not. They always expose themselves and announce their intentions clearly. This isn't a matter of people who we have a disagreement with. They're not simply people we don't like, they're people who threaten to kill us. This is a matter of fascists who publicly announce their intentions to pursue racist, bigoted murder against me and people like me. It is part of AfD's standard platform that LGBTQ people receive fewer rights than straight people, and that all foreigners should be rounded up and deported. Those are fascist threats, not some disagreement on who we like. They only historical method of dealing with these fascists is to destroy them before they destroy us.
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sounds like you see more nazis than we do. We don't have this kind of problem of not understanding who is who. We know who the enemy is and what they deserve. if your understanding of fascists is this shallow it's no wonder you'd sympathize with them
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If you wanna insult me please call me a queer Marxist Stalinist devil worshiper or something, because that would be more accurate. Call me a North Korea apologist because that's true. I'd also readily accept insults like baizuo or first world crakkker, because those are unfortunately also true.
i think fascist for you just means "scary person with bad ideas." if it's only a pejorative to you, rather than a specific identifiable movement, then you're not gonna get it. I recommend reading Robert O. Paxton, or Marxist theorists like Antonio Gramsci or (my personal favorite) the historian Perry Anderson. They've all written on the particular contours of fascist ideology and how to identify it, rather than treating it as simply a set of violent tendencies.
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Call the cops then. I'll have gay sex with all their dads.
Whoa, using violence against people who just happen to disagree with you? Pretty CommuNaziTaliban, my guy
I'm just going with the flow in here
Damn your beliefs are that flimsy? Wild, couldn't be me.
Now this is revealing. Those of use of the socialist/anarchist persuasions understand that violence is a tool and, as such, has both appropriate and inappropriate uses. You see violence as a mood, a vibe, a flow.
you should go with the flow into a strong riptide, dipshit
https://imgur.artemislena.eu/vH6AvL8
https://imgur.artemislena.eu/XIvQWno
Abigail Thorn, The Philosophy of Antifa
Pack it in everyone, the German scat fetishist can't tell the difference between fascists and anti-fascists. Wouldn't be the first, I suppose.
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I don't understand your point of saying the AfD are comparable to standard American Republicans as if that's a defense of them. I also believe Republicans should all be lined up and shot.
Do you realize how fascist you sound?
Is fascism just a tone of voice to you?
I mean there certainly is a tone to fascism. That and mass murdering your political dissidents
Yeah I just don't care about right-wingers and their precious civil rights. They're a fungus growing on the world from decaying capitalism. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever and don't regard them as valid political opponents. They're a death spiral menace to the world with nothing meaningful to contribute
I get the feeling a large majority of the world's population are reactionary fascists by one standard or another to you.
Also, I'm not even necessarily against the idea of censoring Republicans, but KILLING them?
The majority of the world aren't people actively involved in organizing and maintaining fascist organizations, right? If that's the case I don't give a shit about them. Keep those types powerless and isolated, remove the material conditions that give rise to fascist tendencies in the first place.
Why not kill Republicans by the way? Bush Jr. killed a million Iraqis. Trump mediated a genocide against Yemen. Mitch McConnell is already a walking zombie. What is gained from keeping them alive? I'm not talking about killing Republican voters or someone who has a bumper sticker. That's too much work to bother with. I'm talking about Republicans directly managing American empire for the benefit of capital. The average right wing voter is just some loser who deserves re-education.
I think Trump should be imprisoned, not KILLED. Why are you so lustful for blood and guts? Good lord
because I can consider what exactly one Yemeni mother with dead kids thinks about Trump.
Somehow I doubt that the millions of us in the lower classes who suffered from his régime would be that restrained.
In any case, it isn’t a question of one individual’s prescription. It is more a question of historic inevitability and necessity. I can’t say anything for sure, but should the lower classes directly confront Donald Trump and Mike Pence one day, I have a feeling that we’ll be just as forgiving as lower‐class Italians were of Benito Mussolini. Only a guess, though.
I don't think it's especially productive to kill people when imprisoning them is easy, as it would be with the resources in America, but I don't see why you are clutching your pearls this hard at a butcher of countless thousands being killed.
Which according to you is bad, but using force to stop it is equally as bad. Liberalism, everybody
When have Republicans mass murdered their political dissidents? Another tool of fascists: extreme hyperbole.
If you think they're so dangerous to society, VOTE THEM OUT, reshape the system, hell the bar them from office! Massacring them just makes YOU the fascist
Every war America has ever involved itself in, plus an absurd amount of massacred and lynched prisoners, civil rights activists and random black and indigenous people, plus every victim of America's fascist puppet governments abroad, plus everyone who starves to death in capitalist countries where food is locked up to rot, plus everyone who dies of covid due to our non-response, ect. We would literally be here all day if I wanted to list out everyone the American capitalist oligarchy and it's decorative "parties" has slaughtered on the altar of capital.
Lol, there's no shame in admitting you don't know what fascism is dude. It's not transmissible like Lycanthropy, and it's not When Violence. Also, how the fuck do you think the nazis were stopped. You think they were voted out?
Although if massacring nondescript "dissenters" is what makes a government fascist, I'm glad we at least share the correct opinion that the US is fascist.
Can I persuade you to actually read Luxemburg, instead of just embodying the West German co-opting of her? Specifically, I'm thinking of Sozialreform oder Revolution?
https://lemmy.ml/post/7886270
not sure about your neighbor but anyone caping for nazis the way you do should probably be lined up and shot alongside them
You sound like a nazi
You sound like you are realizing where your bread is buttered and arguing for that side accordingly.
Democracy is (in part) when you tell the fascists to eat shit, yes.
L take. AES countries which are actual democracies do the same thing.
Though of course, banning it isn't gonna go anywhere for Germany unless they tackle the root cause of capitalism.
I think they're saying that liberal "democracies", as soon as they need to, will use the exact same censorship that they claim "autocracies" use, and which not using is the entire source of their supposed moral superiority.