I'm interested to hear just how 'bad' it was - I of course don't trust the exact figure they put out, but its hard to know if they'll inflate the statistics because China Bad, or if they'll deflate the statistics because MI6/Britain is James Bond good.
It's so silly. All the spy stuff. It's like - well we hacked them, then they hacked us, then we hacked them, then they hacked us, then we hacked them, for as long as computers have been a part of each nations infrastructure.
So, 'Breaking News' everyone, spies are still spying. The spying will continue until they stop spying on us.
as a bit of a tangent, this is a great read on the technique developed by Yuri Totrov for identifying spies using statistical patterns that drove CIA nuts
Some of these points are embarrassingly obvious. Of course your spy's cover as a diplomat is going to suck if he didn't went to the school all diplomats go to and doesn't live up to objective requirements like that of citizenship.
I wonder how amateurish these diplomatic covers are today and if it is only the yanks who are this bad at them.
Somebody should write a comedy/parody of espionage thrillers around this. Owning your opponent so hard they think they're crawling with infiltrators is damn funny.
I remember reading that a lot of the CIA/FBI guys were cocky and refused to believe they could be infiltrated which led to delays in investigations for moles lol. That or they suspected minority agents instead of white ones.
Half of these are so obvious I refuse to believe that's all of it or even is it and Totrov wasn't fucking with the CIA because it would do bad things to my mental health. Gotta say folks, that's bullshit, there's a more shadowy, more competent level of CIA at play that Totrov didn't know about
The Cold War over, a senior and very experienced officer was dispatched to Japan to seek out Totrov and offer him a vast sum of money for his "memoirs." Totrov’s retort was typically blunt. "Have you not read what is on my file at Langley? It says, 'Not to be Pitched.'"
Big dick move though
the fact that CIA officers replacing one another tended to take on the same post within the embassy hierarchy, drive the same make of vehicle, rent the same apartment and so on. Why? Because the personnel office in Langley shuffled and dealt overseas postings with as little effort as required.
I'm becoming the fucking joker here I've had better Opsec than that as a teenager doing dumb shit
The incompetence is absolutely stunning. CIA managed to build up so much mystique around itself, but when you read up on how they actually operate you quickly realize that this org is full of utter clowns.
I see your point but I still refuse to believe "Our last guy got found out, here's his spy job, his spy communications line, his spy car with which you go to the same spy house he did. You also lack 9/10 requirements for having this job on paper. Watch out for moles, the only reason we can imagine that the last guy got found out." is real and no argument can convince me of this for reasons stated above. I'm going full conspiracy theorist here, the truth is too horrifying to me and I instead opt to construct some shadowy cabal that pulls the strings and put this on as a front. I mean what, we couldn't forge some papers here?
I'd retire clothes for like 3 months when I was a drunk teenager stealing road signs for funsies just in case a witness description of "Black hoodie, jeans, average height man (probably)" got out and somebody else saw it and connected it to me revealing I was drunk of my ass near location X at the time. If I believe this, this would've put me in like top 1% of removed, apparently. I refuse to believe entire governemnts get toppled and the course of history changed by a bunch of dudes who couldn't get on the level of OPSEC of an alcoholic teenager, sorry. I now consider the CIA a front organisation putting out chaff to distract from the actual agency, the Even-More-Central-Intelligence-Agency (EMCIA), which is so good at their job none of us know about it
I very much agree that what's being described are just comical levels of incompetence. Small children could run a more competent spy organization than this.
Resident spies tend to be easier to identify. You start off by assuming everyone wearing a suit and lanyard at an embassy is intelligence and you’d be correct 70% of the time. The guys who are gun running, meeting monarchs to traffic children, meeting friends of warlords and drug lords - they tend to be less identifiable.
You give them too much credit. I mean the KGB’s intelligence was the most sophisticated in the world and the USSR got toppled. No amount of intelligence is going to save you from incompetence and malice in more powerful positions. Not to mention, the CIA was communicating with sources through fake websites with passwords hidden in the page elements lol
I'm interested to hear just how 'bad' it was - I of course don't trust the exact figure they put out, but its hard to know if they'll inflate the statistics because China Bad, or if they'll deflate the statistics because MI6/Britain is James Bond good.
It's so silly. All the spy stuff. It's like - well we hacked them, then they hacked us, then we hacked them, then they hacked us, then we hacked them, for as long as computers have been a part of each nations infrastructure.
So, 'Breaking News' everyone, spies are still spying. The spying will continue until they stop spying on us.
as a bit of a tangent, this is a great read on the technique developed by Yuri Totrov for identifying spies using statistical patterns that drove CIA nuts
https://www.salon.com/2015/09/26/how_to_explain_the_kgbs_amazing_success_identifying_cia_agents_in_the_field/
and here's the list of identifiers he came up with
https://books.google.ca/books?id=-SmgCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA256&lpg=PA256&dq=%22Agency+personnel+were+frequently+alumni+of+Harvard,+Yale+or+Columbia%22&ots=56nvHTN27B&sig=ACfU3U0w4HRdq8GPeCcz8cz5q-s1QDAonQ&hl=en&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22Agency%20personnel%20were%20frequently%20alumni%20of%20Harvard%2C%20Yale%20or%20Columbia%22&f=false
Some of these points are embarrassingly obvious. Of course your spy's cover as a diplomat is going to suck if he didn't went to the school all diplomats go to and doesn't live up to objective requirements like that of citizenship.
I wonder how amateurish these diplomatic covers are today and if it is only the yanks who are this bad at them.
the soviets: we noticed that CIA agents often hang out with CIA agents
the us: fuck. how could they do this to us. how did they know. we're so fucked
Somebody should write a comedy/parody of espionage thrillers around this. Owning your opponent so hard they think they're crawling with infiltrators is damn funny.
lol yeah
Well there was also that too lol. The main CIA guy in charge of rooting out KGB moles was, you guessed it, a KGB mole himself.
Something something owning the means of personnel
I remember reading that a lot of the CIA/FBI guys were cocky and refused to believe they could be infiltrated which led to delays in investigations for moles lol. That or they suspected minority agents instead of white ones.
Aldrich Ames, right?
Half of these are so obvious I refuse to believe that's all of it or even is it and Totrov wasn't fucking with the CIA because it would do bad things to my mental health. Gotta say folks, that's bullshit, there's a more shadowy, more competent level of CIA at play that Totrov didn't know about
Big dick move though
I'm becoming the fucking joker here I've had better Opsec than that as a teenager doing dumb shit
The incompetence is absolutely stunning. CIA managed to build up so much mystique around itself, but when you read up on how they actually operate you quickly realize that this org is full of utter clowns.
I see your point but I still refuse to believe "Our last guy got found out, here's his spy job, his spy communications line, his spy car with which you go to the same spy house he did. You also lack 9/10 requirements for having this job on paper. Watch out for moles, the only reason we can imagine that the last guy got found out." is real and no argument can convince me of this for reasons stated above. I'm going full conspiracy theorist here, the truth is too horrifying to me and I instead opt to construct some shadowy cabal that pulls the strings and put this on as a front. I mean what, we couldn't forge some papers here?
I'd retire clothes for like 3 months when I was a drunk teenager stealing road signs for funsies just in case a witness description of "Black hoodie, jeans, average height man (probably)" got out and somebody else saw it and connected it to me revealing I was drunk of my ass near location X at the time. If I believe this, this would've put me in like top 1% of removed, apparently. I refuse to believe entire governemnts get toppled and the course of history changed by a bunch of dudes who couldn't get on the level of OPSEC of an alcoholic teenager, sorry. I now consider the CIA a front organisation putting out chaff to distract from the actual agency, the Even-More-Central-Intelligence-Agency (EMCIA), which is so good at their job none of us know about it
I very much agree that what's being described are just comical levels of incompetence. Small children could run a more competent spy organization than this.
Resident spies tend to be easier to identify. You start off by assuming everyone wearing a suit and lanyard at an embassy is intelligence and you’d be correct 70% of the time. The guys who are gun running, meeting monarchs to traffic children, meeting friends of warlords and drug lords - they tend to be less identifiable.
You give them too much credit. I mean the KGB’s intelligence was the most sophisticated in the world and the USSR got toppled. No amount of intelligence is going to save you from incompetence and malice in more powerful positions. Not to mention, the CIA was communicating with sources through fake websites with passwords hidden in the page elements lol
Espionage is an open secret. No one serious considers embassies a place of diplomacy and administration unless it’s an insignificant country.