I do think the anarchists have the right idea with this one and everybody should rotate like 2-3 months of the year doing critical hard labor like this. No, your ordinary work is not "too valuable" for you to be exempted from it. If you don't experience the work that goes into maintaining the basic conditions of your modern existence it's easy to become ungrateful and alienated from the material realities of your society.
In the advanced capitalist countries of the world, employment in agriculture is under 5%. Under 2% in the USA. If we cycled this work it would just be a couple of weeks per worker. I'm not against the idea, but it probably just makes more sense to focus on agricultural productivity and automation.
in china and japan i have friends who studied K-12 there and they do cleaning amd stuff, not hard labor and i'd imagine it is better than sitting a desk.
places will always need to be cleaned, fostering that in youth would be a great virtue to instill.
also as a guy i learned how to clean a bit in school bcuz i was keener and wanted to suck up to teachers
When you’re forced to sweat to keep things tidy or spend a lot of time cooking a meal, it becomes more taboo to make a mess. I guess it’s why the military likes collective punishment so much in boot camp lol.
Unfortunately I've experienced the other side, someone who felt so humiliated by the experience of serving someone else, they feel entitled to treat other people like shit because "they're getting paid to take it, like I was".
Education must be liberating and all that stuff, I guess.
One of the greatest crimes the commies did in Eastern Europe was forcing the aristocrats to work like peasants. Just imagine! A countess! Working with peasant women! The horror!
Here's how liberal historians write about this crime:
spoiler
"The planning and execution of the 1951 Budapest deportations by the Hungarian political leadership aimed to achieve multiple objectives simultaneously. In the spirit of the intensifying class struggle, they intended to deliver yet another blow to the former social elite, who, despite having lost their economic and political influence due to nationalizations and blacklisting, still lived in relatively closed communities in Budapest's inner districts, forming a sort of social network. This "enclave," at the height of Third World War hysteria, also represented the vision that in the event of a military conflict, these socially hostile groups would remain a "Trojan horse" in the heart of the country, in the middle of the capital.
Additionally, the element of the measures involving the relocation of Budapest deportees to wealthier peasant farmers, termed "kulaks" in contemporary language, in the non-cooperative villages of the eastern counties of the country, was also conceived in the spirit of class struggle. This was intended to exacerbate the tensions between these already geographically and socially distant groups. The military logic, specifically Stalin's vision of the rapidly approaching Third World War, also justified that the deportations were exclusively directed towards Eastern Hungary, closer to the Soviet border, ensuring that the hostile elements remained sufficiently isolated even after the onset of wartime conditions.
A more practical consideration, however, was that through the deportations, the state could acquire several thousand generally high-quality inner Budapest properties. This was essential for establishing the economic status of the new social elite amid scarce housing conditions.
The deportations, which took place between May 21 and July 18, 1951, affected over five thousand families, at least 12,000–14,000 individuals. According to statistical summaries, one-third of the deportees (33%) had served as military officers before 1945, more than one-fifth (23%) were members of the economic elite (wholesalers, bank directors, factory owners or directors), about 17% were former state officials, 6% were policemen, and another 6% were former aristocrats."
I don't know about you, but I was nodding like Jack Nicholson in the famous gif. Certain 1%-er families who were part of the elite in the regime that committed the white terror and the holocaust were froced to live like serfs for a couple of years. Again, these stories are recounted as a deportation that is comparable to the ethnic cleansing and genocide that was done by these elites...
Anyway, this was a tangent. Everyone able should do some kind of manual labor in their life at some point.
This lady is a joke but it wasn't just the 1% that was forced into labor, all academics were including my grandpa who made a meager salary at a local university. He was forced to work on a tobacco farm where he picked up smoking and contracted the lung cancer that took his life. I don't want to say the service idea in the post is wrong or that the sicko concubine beating, foot binding oligarchs who once ruled China didn't deserve to get destroyed, but because the CCP's policy was so callously sweeping it hurt a lot of innocent people.
Well, the cultural revolution is a different thing, I was mostly talking about post ww2 Eastern Europe, where it is seen as a national tragedy that the 1%-ers and the far right high ranking state officials had to work as peasants for a couple of years in the 50s. I think almost all of them through their education (privilege) and through their connections were able to get back to a kind of "soviet" "middle class" lifestyle after a few years, and they were literally paid reparations after the fall of communism (which obviously led to gigantic corruption).
Something similar also happened at the universities, where students from peasant and proletarian background were given preference over students who came from a privileged background, even though people who came from formerly rich/middle class families usually had better scores. Again this is seen as a crime of communism, even though we factually know that being from privileged family gives you all kinds of advantages. Commies just wanted to flip the script, so the old intelligentsia does not become the new intelligentsia as well.
I agree. Also people should be trained how to grow their own food/make things themselves. There are people in the USA who go their entire lives unable to cook a single meal.
i want to do it so bad, just like give me some training wheels and make it so i dont get yelled at too much. thats what got in the way in my past attempts.
This is a pipe dream to even try to figure out how you would coordinate it but I've thought for a long time it would be cool to do office work half the week and actually work a trade thenother half.
Would deffinitly help with burnout to not be doing the exact same job every day for decades.
The challenge would be making sure everybody got a decent wage through it which would basically require getting rid of wages.
My friend works in a farming co-op, and they rotate the jobs for it through the year, he can be actually farming for a month, then another month being cashier on the store and so on.
I do think the anarchists have the right idea with this one and everybody should rotate like 2-3 months of the year doing critical hard labor like this. No, your ordinary work is not "too valuable" for you to be exempted from it. If you don't experience the work that goes into maintaining the basic conditions of your modern existence it's easy to become ungrateful and alienated from the material realities of your society.
In the advanced capitalist countries of the world, employment in agriculture is under 5%. Under 2% in the USA. If we cycled this work it would just be a couple of weeks per worker. I'm not against the idea, but it probably just makes more sense to focus on agricultural productivity and automation.
in china and japan i have friends who studied K-12 there and they do cleaning amd stuff, not hard labor and i'd imagine it is better than sitting a desk.
places will always need to be cleaned, fostering that in youth would be a great virtue to instill.
also as a guy i learned how to clean a bit in school bcuz i was keener and wanted to suck up to teachers
Right yeah there's physical labor that isn't just farming.
I legitimately like how Japanese schools have the kids clean and maintain the school and cycle through groups that clean the classroom each week.
When you’re forced to sweat to keep things tidy or spend a lot of time cooking a meal, it becomes more taboo to make a mess. I guess it’s why the military likes collective punishment so much in boot camp lol.
Never seen someone that's worked retail treat anyone in customer service like shit.
You have slightly more respect for what you've experienced.
Unfortunately I've experienced the other side, someone who felt so humiliated by the experience of serving someone else, they feel entitled to treat other people like shit because "they're getting paid to take it, like I was".
Education must be liberating and all that stuff, I guess.
but thats authoritarism gobbunism
EDIT: nvm forgot it's japan so we good
It would put a real quick stop to all the school kids absolutely destroying bathrooms.
You're a lot less likely to stuff a toilet and rip the door off the stall if your entire class beats your ass because they have to clean it up.
I had to mop the floor in middle school as a form of punishment. And the teacher hated me, so it was always me.
One of the greatest crimes the commies did in Eastern Europe was forcing the aristocrats to work like peasants. Just imagine! A countess! Working with peasant women! The horror!
Here's how liberal historians write about this crime:
spoiler
"The planning and execution of the 1951 Budapest deportations by the Hungarian political leadership aimed to achieve multiple objectives simultaneously. In the spirit of the intensifying class struggle, they intended to deliver yet another blow to the former social elite, who, despite having lost their economic and political influence due to nationalizations and blacklisting, still lived in relatively closed communities in Budapest's inner districts, forming a sort of social network. This "enclave," at the height of Third World War hysteria, also represented the vision that in the event of a military conflict, these socially hostile groups would remain a "Trojan horse" in the heart of the country, in the middle of the capital.
Additionally, the element of the measures involving the relocation of Budapest deportees to wealthier peasant farmers, termed "kulaks" in contemporary language, in the non-cooperative villages of the eastern counties of the country, was also conceived in the spirit of class struggle. This was intended to exacerbate the tensions between these already geographically and socially distant groups. The military logic, specifically Stalin's vision of the rapidly approaching Third World War, also justified that the deportations were exclusively directed towards Eastern Hungary, closer to the Soviet border, ensuring that the hostile elements remained sufficiently isolated even after the onset of wartime conditions.
A more practical consideration, however, was that through the deportations, the state could acquire several thousand generally high-quality inner Budapest properties. This was essential for establishing the economic status of the new social elite amid scarce housing conditions.
The deportations, which took place between May 21 and July 18, 1951, affected over five thousand families, at least 12,000–14,000 individuals. According to statistical summaries, one-third of the deportees (33%) had served as military officers before 1945, more than one-fifth (23%) were members of the economic elite (wholesalers, bank directors, factory owners or directors), about 17% were former state officials, 6% were policemen, and another 6% were former aristocrats."
I don't know about you, but I was nodding like Jack Nicholson in the famous gif. Certain 1%-er families who were part of the elite in the regime that committed the white terror and the holocaust were froced to live like serfs for a couple of years. Again, these stories are recounted as a deportation that is comparable to the ethnic cleansing and genocide that was done by these elites...
Anyway, this was a tangent. Everyone able should do some kind of manual labor in their life at some point.
This lady is a joke but it wasn't just the 1% that was forced into labor, all academics were including my grandpa who made a meager salary at a local university. He was forced to work on a tobacco farm where he picked up smoking and contracted the lung cancer that took his life. I don't want to say the service idea in the post is wrong or that the sicko concubine beating, foot binding oligarchs who once ruled China didn't deserve to get destroyed, but because the CCP's policy was so callously sweeping it hurt a lot of innocent people.
Well, the cultural revolution is a different thing, I was mostly talking about post ww2 Eastern Europe, where it is seen as a national tragedy that the 1%-ers and the far right high ranking state officials had to work as peasants for a couple of years in the 50s. I think almost all of them through their education (privilege) and through their connections were able to get back to a kind of "soviet" "middle class" lifestyle after a few years, and they were literally paid reparations after the fall of communism (which obviously led to gigantic corruption).
Something similar also happened at the universities, where students from peasant and proletarian background were given preference over students who came from a privileged background, even though people who came from formerly rich/middle class families usually had better scores. Again this is seen as a crime of communism, even though we factually know that being from privileged family gives you all kinds of advantages. Commies just wanted to flip the script, so the old intelligentsia does not become the new intelligentsia as well.
Japanese people already do this. The kids do menial tasks like cleaning their classrooms, cooking, and serving each other
Global chore list
Che was big on this, too.
I agree. Also people should be trained how to grow their own food/make things themselves. There are people in the USA who go their entire lives unable to cook a single meal.
i want to do it so bad, just like give me some training wheels and make it so i dont get yelled at too much. thats what got in the way in my past attempts.
This is a pipe dream to even try to figure out how you would coordinate it but I've thought for a long time it would be cool to do office work half the week and actually work a trade thenother half.
Would deffinitly help with burnout to not be doing the exact same job every day for decades.
The challenge would be making sure everybody got a decent wage through it which would basically require getting rid of wages.
My friend works in a farming co-op, and they rotate the jobs for it through the year, he can be actually farming for a month, then another month being cashier on the store and so on.