cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/5626541

      • TheDoctor [they/them]
        ·
        2 months ago

        Nah there are plenty of communists and fascists on other Lemmy instances as well. We call people liberals when they do liberal things like voting for a capitalist who implemented neoliberal policies

        • ThirdWorldOrder@feddit.nl
          ·
          2 months ago

          You’re never going to find a perfect candidate. Trump wants to be an isolationist, sort of how the US was prior to WW2 but he’s also an assclown.

          Harris at least can speak in complete sentences so the bar is pretty low around here.

          If there’s a third party that isn’t just some joke then I’m all for it but the system is what it is and currently Harris is the best option for me out of the two.

          That said, you’re not gonna find anyone in any kind of official capacity in the USA who is going to side with anyone cozied up with Irans government.

          • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
            ·
            2 months ago

            You’re never going to find a perfect candidate.

            wtyp we aren't looking for a candidate. We aren't voting because we have a principled stance against this government and both of its parties. Not because we're demanding some sort of "perfect candidate."

          • TheDoctor [they/them]
            ·
            2 months ago

            So I said “a capitalist who implemented neoliberal policies” and you thought I was criticizing Harris? I was talking about how Trump is a liberal. Maybe ask why you would mistake one for the other.

          • SeekTheDeletion [none/use name]
            ·
            2 months ago

            you are never going to find a perfect candidate

            We don’t need perfect, just good (ie communist) although right now I’d settle for a non-warmonger anti-imperialist Liberal who didn’t support genocide, but none such options are available because we live in a genocidal war nation.

            lenin-laugh

      • Doubledee [comrade/them]
        ·
        2 months ago

        It has a definition I'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept.

        Unless you think Trump is like, a fascist (which I would entertain but you said you voted for him so I sincerely hope you don't think that) he's still within the bounds of liberalism. Free markets, liberty as individuals, private property, etc.

        • SeekTheDeletion [none/use name]
          ·
          2 months ago

          I would contend that Fascism is a subtype of Liberal. You go down far enough the neoliberal path and you are suddenly fascist, there’s 0 hard dividing line

          • Doubledee [comrade/them]
            ·
            2 months ago

            I think that's fair, I think there are enough distinctions (its strong nationalism and backward- looking revanchism aren't innate to liberalism, I think there are real points of conflict where libs would usually depart from fascism, absent a threat from their left) that I would accept someone categorizing it as a form of liberalism or as a separate ideology if they support their view. I think for libs though it's best to try and be charitable if it's a distinction they recognize.

            • SeekTheDeletion [none/use name]
              ·
              2 months ago

              The original fascists invented austerity and deregulation and privatization. The Nazis and Italian fascists were the pioneers of these policies, unwinding the regulations and social policies of the social Liberals that came before them.

              They are functionally indistinguishable from the “economic Liberalism” described elsewhere in this thread and “Libertarianism”. It’s all the same thing in different degrees.

              American Liberals are extremely nationalistic, chauvinist, revanchist, warmongering and imperialistic. Your point of difference doesn’t even apply

              • Doubledee [comrade/them]
                ·
                2 months ago

                I think American liberalism is distinct from other countries' in that way, yes. My experience is that it's not normal elsewhere. I think the free market strives to transcend national prerogative as well, that's why Mises and Hayek were so keen to set up organizations like the IMF and WTO to enforce market order on nations without their interests getting in the way. Libs frequently support a "world system" over national interest in other countries.

                As I said though, I can buy an argument in either direction, since fascism is so slippery as a term and the common usage of these ideas varies pretty widely. Maybe that's too accommodating on my part. I dunno. I take your point though.

                • SeekTheDeletion [none/use name]
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  Homie look at all the European “liberals” clamoring over themselves to arm and fund Nazis to kill Russian orcs. They only pretend to be above that shit, when rubber meets the road they all fall in line.

                  If all it takes to make a Liberal into a fascist is a scratch, they were always a fascist with a thin coat of paint.

                  • Doubledee [comrade/them]
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    For sure, liberals will always side with fascism when threatened, they are far more compatible with it than communism. And since being scratched is inevitable they will always have a fascism problem.