This is funny but it is a bit close to the sort of screenshots of contrasting tweets by Jewish people that /pol/ likes to post to try to paint them as undercover pretend-white-people trying to undermine society with liberal ideas. It's probably fine unless we get in the habit of posting these. I don't think Hexbear is ready for the "are Jews white" struggle session lmao
is it a struggle session? broadly speaking fair-skinned jews are white or not at any given moment depending on which benefits white supremacy and white supremacists.
Most (European-descended) Jewish people are white IMO, it's not exactly difficult to see it (both in regards to appearance, but moreso in regards to privilege).
It's a contextual whiteness (an arbitrary construct) as always, but we may as well be arguing if Irish, Russians, or Italians are "white" at that point as well, or even if the white Latin Americans or Boers (who were also brutally abused by the British), etc. are "white." Go back far enough, and you'll find Ben Franklin going on about how even the Germans and Nordics are "tawny" and only the English and Saxons are white...
To argue further on it we'd need to define the limitations of what kind of whiteness we're talking about IMO. "Phenotypical" whiteness (usually with an ethno-religious bent particularly to root out Muslims and indigenous culture) like what is predominantly, culturally ingrained across the settler-Anglosphere? "Whiteness" by political alignment and acceptment into the upper echelons of the imperialist in-group? (Even then that becomes messy as all hell, for instance we all know Klanmala, Barry, and Rishi aren't white, even if Barry is half-white or half-European descent).
There won't be any satisfying answers ultimately. But I don't think anyone can look at Blinken, Yellen, Nuland, Netanyahu, or the many other prominent European-descended Jewish people in the framework of empire today and say that they are not white in the here-and-now; as white as imaginable. Not to say whiteness is associated with guilt- because if it were then as with the other definitions it becomes messy as all hell- but the whiteness, and adjacency or acceptance into it (into empire and the system of white supremacy, perhaps?) certainly is a thing today.
Probably the most satisfying/fitting thing IMO (other than the phenotypical definition, or geographic one) would be "adjacency to empire" but even that naturally falls apart real fast.
I agree i never liked the talking point that other non anglo Europeans werent "white" which is a cursed horseshoe theory that have seen shared by leftists and actual White supremecists.
Eh there are a bunch of people who have "passing privilege" where they can be contextually white or nonwhite. One of my Iranian friends is like this for example. It has a lot of weird intersections like you can pass more if you're conventionally good-looking. A lot of Jewish people occupy this space. Unless someone knows a lot of Jewish people or has weird racist phrenological interests a lot of Jewish people just look straightforwardly white.
Yep, language also plays a role here. A Hispanic person who speaks English fluently and is familiar with North American culture can pass as white, but if the same person only speaks Spanish and isn't familiar with burger culture then they aren't white in America but they can still be white in a different context, in contrast to the indigenous and the Black.
Yeah that was funny as hell, but also antisemites like to accuse Jews of doing that on a systematic level, using memes exactly like this one. You could post this same image in /pol/ and they will pick up that message.
Obviously RNAi did not mean it anything like that tho.
We'd need more context, but this seems like the reverse, where this dude knows that he is white for all intents and purposes but is cynically leveraging being Jewish to pretend he's a POC in order to (in the eyes of liberals) exempt himself from white supremacy.
Zionists and those who uphold imperialist hegemony are white. But watch how quickly Jews who support Palestine are relegated back to untermensch status
Zionists and those who uphold imperialist hegemony are white.
This doesn't hold up. There are compradors of all races aiding white supremacy and imperialism worldwide, but they don't get white status. Jews aren't different in this regard. Just because they're Zionist scumbags doesn't mean they're immune to the actual antisemitism that permeates the empire.
You’re right, I was being flippant and came across as invalidating the very real antisemitism that American jews are often subjected to. I’ve got something like 4 hours of work meetings coming up but will write out better response after
I'm sure our comrade knows this, and I think its not really what theyre getting at
I agree with their point, though tbh the line about the struggle session feels pretty baity to me, tbh so does the tweet.
Either way I think race is pretty important to the tweeter. Im extremely pale and I dont go around getting into arguments about whether I am or not, how embarrassing.
This is funny but it is a bit close to the sort of screenshots of contrasting tweets by Jewish people that /pol/ likes to post to try to paint them as undercover pretend-white-people trying to undermine society with liberal ideas. It's probably fine unless we get in the habit of posting these. I don't think Hexbear is ready for the "are Jews white" struggle session lmao
is it a struggle session? broadly speaking fair-skinned jews are white or not at any given moment depending on which benefits white supremacy and white supremacists.
Most (European-descended) Jewish people are white IMO, it's not exactly difficult to see it (both in regards to appearance, but moreso in regards to privilege).
It's a contextual whiteness (an arbitrary construct) as always, but we may as well be arguing if Irish, Russians, or Italians are "white" at that point as well, or even if the white Latin Americans or Boers (who were also brutally abused by the British), etc. are "white." Go back far enough, and you'll find Ben Franklin going on about how even the Germans and Nordics are "tawny" and only the English and Saxons are white...
To argue further on it we'd need to define the limitations of what kind of whiteness we're talking about IMO. "Phenotypical" whiteness (usually with an ethno-religious bent particularly to root out Muslims and indigenous culture) like what is predominantly, culturally ingrained across the settler-Anglosphere? "Whiteness" by political alignment and acceptment into the upper echelons of the imperialist in-group? (Even then that becomes messy as all hell, for instance we all know Klanmala, Barry, and Rishi aren't white, even if Barry is half-white or half-European descent).
There won't be any satisfying answers ultimately. But I don't think anyone can look at Blinken, Yellen, Nuland, Netanyahu, or the many other prominent European-descended Jewish people in the framework of empire today and say that they are not white in the here-and-now; as white as imaginable. Not to say whiteness is associated with guilt- because if it were then as with the other definitions it becomes messy as all hell- but the whiteness, and adjacency or acceptance into it (into empire and the system of white supremacy, perhaps?) certainly is a thing today.
Probably the most satisfying/fitting thing IMO (other than the phenotypical definition, or geographic one) would be "adjacency to empire" but even that naturally falls apart real fast.
I agree i never liked the talking point that other non anglo Europeans werent "white" which is a cursed horseshoe theory that have seen shared by leftists and actual White supremecists.
Yeah this meme is just changeling shit and would fit in unedited in an antisemitic venue.
I see this as more of a asablackman thing where on one comment you are poc and then pretend like that never happend.
Remember the "as a gay black man"? From that one Republican ghoul.
Eh there are a bunch of people who have "passing privilege" where they can be contextually white or nonwhite. One of my Iranian friends is like this for example. It has a lot of weird intersections like you can pass more if you're conventionally good-looking. A lot of Jewish people occupy this space. Unless someone knows a lot of Jewish people or has weird racist phrenological interests a lot of Jewish people just look straightforwardly white.
Yep, language also plays a role here. A Hispanic person who speaks English fluently and is familiar with North American culture can pass as white, but if the same person only speaks Spanish and isn't familiar with burger culture then they aren't white in America but they can still be white in a different context, in contrast to the indigenous and the Black.
Yeah that was funny as hell, but also antisemites like to accuse Jews of doing that on a systematic level, using memes exactly like this one. You could post this same image in /pol/ and they will pick up that message.
Obviously RNAi did not mean it anything like that tho.
We'd need more context, but this seems like the reverse, where this dude knows that he is white for all intents and purposes but is cynically leveraging being Jewish to pretend he's a POC in order to (in the eyes of liberals) exempt himself from white supremacy.
That one’s pretty easy.
Zionists and those who uphold imperialist hegemony are white. But watch how quickly Jews who support Palestine are relegated back to untermensch status
This doesn't hold up. There are compradors of all races aiding white supremacy and imperialism worldwide, but they don't get white status. Jews aren't different in this regard. Just because they're Zionist scumbags doesn't mean they're immune to the actual antisemitism that permeates the empire.
You’re right, I was being flippant and came across as invalidating the very real antisemitism that American jews are often subjected to. I’ve got something like 4 hours of work meetings coming up but will write out better response after
Not all Jews whould be put in the same racial category there are some that whould considerd "Black" and there are others who whould be seen as white
I'm sure our comrade knows this, and I think its not really what theyre getting at
I agree with their point, though tbh the line about the struggle session feels pretty baity to me, tbh so does the tweet.
Either way I think race is pretty important to the tweeter. Im extremely pale and I dont go around getting into arguments about whether I am or not, how embarrassing.
Who is embarrasing?
The person tweeting, sorry, its very late in my day. I wasnt trying to pick a fight with you.