like 10%ish of the userbase is a mod. if you want change, sign up to be a mod and put in the work? idk its really easy to do. for trans people i literally add anyone thats trans and a regular user of the site to /c/traa. traa alone has 35 mods. youre acting like the whole mod team is just 4 people in wizard hats sitting in an ivory tower with zero discussion.
its impossible to know exactly how everyone is going to take every small change that must be done, and i feel like this is genuinely a really small change.
ok we're going to instate full direct democracy immediately, i am going to poll all of hexbear about whether or not we should ban some random guy over a weird comment, whether or not to approve a user every time someone signs up, every time there is some small technocratic rule change. we must become :vote: the website. deeply unserious. its hard enough to get even the most invested users to comment on shit and do shit until it blows up in some absurd way
people are also going at the transphobia angle a lot in this thread without realizing that almost a supermajority of the mod team is trans and wouldnt have included something blatantly transphobic (including the two people are irate with, carcosa and tc69), the context is just missing.
idk this is just all nonsense to me im going back to checking out
It's fine for some decisions to be made by mods only, but keeping it quiet and rolling the changes out all at once when the decision is final seems to cause nothing but problems. It means the mods and admins are caught off guard when the users have strong objections, and have to scramble and backtrack to deal with the backlash. A heads-up about what changes were being discussed would have let the mods be aware of what complaints would be made while they were still in the decision making process. Then when the changes are made, they could already have measures ready to address the concerns, or at least consistent explanations of why the changes where necessary. Instead they had to quickly throw out multiple conflicting justifications, and added to the confusion.
If you're surprised the users saw this as more than a tiny change, an announcement that a discussion was happening could have given a warning of what to expect.
theres like 60+ people in it def not very secret lol. though afaik its not literally every mod in there because like you said people forget to join or something or just never sign up
I have never seen it explicitly mentioned before yesterday, I only seen like admin/mod "back channels" or something similarly vague mentioned before
It's not explicitly secret but there does seem to be this culture among the mod and admin team of an "inside circle", inside which decisions are made and the process behind how and why they are made is usually left mostly unspecified but ofc the statements by mods for/against this change did kinda subvert that usual process. Tbh I've never seen anything like this in my like 2.5 years here lol
Ofc, the "inside circle" thing does make sense considering the site nearly imploded a few times during the first year due to wreckers abusing democratic structures and many of the changes that made this site cool did have to be forced through
Idk, it seems like something has gone very wrong for a decision like this to be made apparently unilaterally given the response
I am in favor of further misogyny and other brainworms purges ofc but the whole point of the tanks was so that people could block that stuff if they don't wanna partake lol, now people just post stuff they wanna make fun of without writing an essay about it to other comms. Is just strange to me how this decision was made given the previous sentence
Also........ was that Catradora on alts in the other threads? Is kinda like another open secret that she got banned for vicious anti-veganism and stuff but she's still here, doing it on another acct now while being allowed to moderate and maybe using alts for when she wants to be explicitly ableist and transphobic (ofc I have no way to verify that other than what it seems like to me, I guess you would have to ask the lemmy.club admins for IP addresses lol). I don't rly like this "unbanned by vibes and the mods/admins like you" approach, I know people know about this and people's alts are around but it's another one of those open secret things (Like also maybe Melina still being around and DM harassing people like before and only catching a 7 day ban???)
This is gonna sound rly online but idc anymore lol, it does remind me a little bit of a communist party. Like the wrecking and bad faith shit gets so bad that leadership becomes tighter and tighter to protect the party but eventually you can end up with the leadership being disconnected with the rest of the party's feelings on stuff lol
Anyway, maybe I have the completely wrong view of what's going on. Tbh I don't rly know what's going on and that's kinda the problem, TC69 said she's "taking the reigns" now, again after 3 years gone?? And now people are getting banned for "touching keyboard too much" or something?? Even if that's true and it's a still an obscure web forum we all enjoy, how does that look good to anyone besides making the admin who did it feel better lol
I understand the position the admin/mod team must be in though, it must be rly stressful to have your decisions torn apart by 1200+ replies. Carcosa replied to me earlier but I missed replying before the thread got locked, wanted to say no hard feelings lol. Sorry this got kinda long lol
Edit: omg I just looked in the modlog wtf lmao, see you on the other side if I get banned for this lol
Edit 2: slow ass site not showing me why, I see MOST of the bans were requested now lol
in general theres been a need for more admins and stuff that are vetted (which tc69 is). ive been offered it myself before but im mostly invested in my trans mutual aid stuff, not hexbear explicitly tbh whereas they need people that are far more focused. carcosas been having to do a lot of work on the site and the thanks they get is being misgendered by a bunch of people and being attacked for being the messenger for a very large group of people that carcosas trying to cover all the comments on and the context is lost.
Did rly suck to see Carcosa be attacked so much in spite of all they do for the site :(
Were people misgendering them? I didn't see any except one top-level post in the first thread which hopefully is removed now :(
I hate this, removing the tanks was supposed to help the exact type of toxicity that this has now become, and admins, mods, and users are all feeding into it
its impossible to know exactly how everyone is going to take every small change that must be done, and i feel like this is genuinely a really small change.
Well it is pretty obvious from the reaction that it wasn't
like 10%ish of the userbase is a mod. if you want change, sign up to be a mod and put in the work? idk its really easy to do. for trans people i literally add anyone thats trans and a regular user of the site to /c/traa. traa alone has 35 mods. youre acting like the whole mod team is just 4 people in wizard hats sitting in an ivory tower with zero discussion.
its impossible to know exactly how everyone is going to take every small change that must be done, and i feel like this is genuinely a really small change.
Have you tried asking them
ok we're going to instate full direct democracy immediately, i am going to poll all of hexbear about whether or not we should ban some random guy over a weird comment, whether or not to approve a user every time someone signs up, every time there is some small technocratic rule change. we must become :vote: the website. deeply unserious. its hard enough to get even the most invested users to comment on shit and do shit until it blows up in some absurd way
people are also going at the transphobia angle a lot in this thread without realizing that almost a supermajority of the mod team is trans and wouldnt have included something blatantly transphobic (including the two people are irate with, carcosa and tc69), the context is just missing.
idk this is just all nonsense to me im going back to checking out
the_dunk_tank in the past month is ranked; 6th users/month, 3rd posts, 2nd comments.
Ah yes changes to that comm are exactly like a site wide discussion on banning "some random guy over a weird comment".
Say the line Bart
"deeply unserious"
It's fine for some decisions to be made by mods only, but keeping it quiet and rolling the changes out all at once when the decision is final seems to cause nothing but problems. It means the mods and admins are caught off guard when the users have strong objections, and have to scramble and backtrack to deal with the backlash. A heads-up about what changes were being discussed would have let the mods be aware of what complaints would be made while they were still in the decision making process. Then when the changes are made, they could already have measures ready to address the concerns, or at least consistent explanations of why the changes where necessary. Instead they had to quickly throw out multiple conflicting justifications, and added to the confusion.
If you're surprised the users saw this as more than a tiny change, an announcement that a discussion was happening could have given a warning of what to expect.
I'm a mod and I wasn't aware of the formerly?-secret mod chatroom until yesterday :/
Maybe Carcosa invited me after I applied and I forgot, am not sure
There is a secret /c/drugs mod chatroom but there's no activity in there rly, biggest discussion was like picking the banner image lol
Ofc "my" comms don't get a lot of activity, so I'm usually not doing any work lol
theres like 60+ people in it def not very secret lol. though afaik its not literally every mod in there because like you said people forget to join or something or just never sign up
I have never seen it explicitly mentioned before yesterday, I only seen like admin/mod "back channels" or something similarly vague mentioned before
It's not explicitly secret but there does seem to be this culture among the mod and admin team of an "inside circle", inside which decisions are made and the process behind how and why they are made is usually left mostly unspecified but ofc the statements by mods for/against this change did kinda subvert that usual process. Tbh I've never seen anything like this in my like 2.5 years here lol
Ofc, the "inside circle" thing does make sense considering the site nearly imploded a few times during the first year due to wreckers abusing democratic structures and many of the changes that made this site cool did have to be forced through
Idk, it seems like something has gone very wrong for a decision like this to be made apparently unilaterally given the response
I am in favor of further misogyny and other brainworms purges ofc but the whole point of the tanks was so that people could block that stuff if they don't wanna partake lol, now people just post stuff they wanna make fun of without writing an essay about it to other comms. Is just strange to me how this decision was made given the previous sentence
Also........ was that Catradora on alts in the other threads? Is kinda like another open secret that she got banned for vicious anti-veganism and stuff but she's still here, doing it on another acct now while being allowed to moderate and maybe using alts for when she wants to be explicitly ableist and transphobic (ofc I have no way to verify that other than what it seems like to me, I guess you would have to ask the lemmy.club admins for IP addresses lol). I don't rly like this "unbanned by vibes and the mods/admins like you" approach, I know people know about this and people's alts are around but it's another one of those open secret things (Like also maybe Melina still being around and DM harassing people like before and only catching a 7 day ban???)
This is gonna sound rly online but idc anymore lol, it does remind me a little bit of a communist party. Like the wrecking and bad faith shit gets so bad that leadership becomes tighter and tighter to protect the party but eventually you can end up with the leadership being disconnected with the rest of the party's feelings on stuff lol
Anyway, maybe I have the completely wrong view of what's going on. Tbh I don't rly know what's going on and that's kinda the problem, TC69 said she's "taking the reigns" now, again after 3 years gone?? And now people are getting banned for "touching keyboard too much" or something?? Even if that's true and it's a still an obscure web forum we all enjoy, how does that look good to anyone besides making the admin who did it feel better lol
I understand the position the admin/mod team must be in though, it must be rly stressful to have your decisions torn apart by 1200+ replies. Carcosa replied to me earlier but I missed replying before the thread got locked, wanted to say no hard feelings lol. Sorry this got kinda long lol
Edit: omg I just looked in the modlog wtf lmao,
see you on the other side if I get banned for this lol
Edit 2: slow ass site not showing me why, I see MOST of the bans were requested now lol
Got me for a sec lol, still looks rly bad tbh
in general theres been a need for more admins and stuff that are vetted (which tc69 is). ive been offered it myself before but im mostly invested in my trans mutual aid stuff, not hexbear explicitly tbh whereas they need people that are far more focused. carcosas been having to do a lot of work on the site and the thanks they get is being misgendered by a bunch of people and being attacked for being the messenger for a very large group of people that carcosas trying to cover all the comments on and the context is lost.
Did rly suck to see Carcosa be attacked so much in spite of all they do for the site :(
Were people misgendering them? I didn't see any except one top-level post in the first thread which hopefully is removed now :(
I hate this, removing the tanks was supposed to help the exact type of toxicity that this has now become, and admins, mods, and users are all feeding into it
Well it is pretty obvious from the reaction that it wasn't