So, back when I was "still cis tho", there were a lot of aspects of male gender norms that bothered me deeply and of course I totally understand why now. Even though these days I obviously have a clear reason for feeling that way, I'm still curious if cishet men also have issues with how norms or expectations around gender and sexuality impact them in a negative way.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how those norms impact you, whether good or bad.
Also, I should mention that since this is a bit of a sensitive subject we're talking about here, please be thoughtful and sensitive when discussing with others in this thread. Thanks! <3
EDIT: Much thanks for all the great responses here! I know it's a difficult topic of course, so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts/feelings like this.
Speaking of which... I just looked at /c/menby and some of the posts on the front page there are over 2 years old. I see a lot of the discussion here centered around not being able to share feelings and/or not having the spaces or support to do that in. /c/menby seems like the perfect place for that, just sayin'.
You've gotta be so weird about women to fit in with other dudes. Trying to understand women as people and not as some mysterious alien species makes you an immediate outcast.
Fairly benign example: men will frequently complain about how women will "complain about something and then get mad when you tell them how to fix it". Trying to explain the concept of venting (they're doing it right now! They're venting right now about women!) has usually gotten me reactions that range from weird looks and disbelief to arguments that women actually just love not solving problems.
Obvs this isn't as big of a problem as having to put up with men refusing to understand you but it still sucks being expected to participate in it
Women?? Oh, you mean feeeeemales?
Fuck, it makes me cringe so hard when dudes say that. Just the other day I got the "men / females" red flag, but it was my literal first day of work at a new place so I couldn't really say anything. Hate that fucking shit.
Had a friend the other day tell me about how "females" in a relationship are different than "men", but since he's my best friend I could break down for him why literally all his points were wrong and he got it but, damn, it's so constant. Dudes just expect you to literally dehumanize and hate women all the damn time, and if you don't then you're a sensitive white knight snowflake.
It's worse being a woman on the other side of that, of course, but it's still so annoying to be thought of as being cool with that in-group.
I agree, but I wanna go the other way too. I think women are weird about dudes too. My female friends will complain that guys are "bad about talking about their feelings!" (which they are at times) but really they're just bad at talking about their feelings the way women talk about their feelings.
I am very lucky to have very good guy friends and we are good at sharing emotions and our life and so on, it's nice. We often end up joking about it, sometimes there's tears but it's rare. But it's there. We don't talk about it the way women talk about it though, and for some reason we're wrong for that. In my experience feelings are treated less... seriously, like another thing to worry about rather than a separate entity, which - in my experience - is how I see it treated when a group of all women speak of feelings. Neither is wrong or right, as long as both result in better mental health.
I also agree about the "you're venting right now!" but I also here want to point out it goes both ways. When I vent to my friends and they suggest a solution, I'm happy. When they ask for clarification, I'm happy. It helps me process my emotions. Sometimes I'll tell them "I just need to vent" though and then they do that. I tell them that though, which is not something I've ever experienced from a girlfriend.
I don't want to sound like an incel, I agree with your observations and frustrations, I just... I feel like this is a safe space and I wanted to share some too.
Guys are incredibly weird about women. I don't talk to my dad anymore. When I was 12 I remember him looking at some 20-year old walking boy and him saying "boy I wish I had painted the pants on her" (she was wearing tight fitting pants). My mom was present. At my graduation he kept commenting about the looks of my female classmates. He's a pig and I hate him and I am glad mom left him.
I made a whole post a while back about how there just aren't cishet men's spaces where you can talk about women and be normal. Like I think i was comparing, wlw spaces where people are just like "omg women i cannot function aaaaaaa
" and how there are no equivalent cishet men spaces.
You know what i do wonder if this is why i always struggled to form a romantic relationship because of other men telling me "this is how you should treat/speak to women", then making some fucked statement.
A friend from school was getting married. I hadn't seen him for years for one reason or another. I met up with him and his future wife and a few others. She was sat between him and me.
Thought it would be a nice to speak to her as if she was a person. He starts calling me homophobic names as if that would be the only reason why I would talk to a woman as an equal. So his wife just sat there for the whole meal in silence as he spoke with the person to his right and kind of forbade her from talking to me.
What a dick head. I left before dessert and never saw him or her again. I can't stand that kind of man.