remember when people on hexbear this summer were saying every company in china is worker run now? remember the reasonable people getting ratioed? that was the moment i realized that this most of place is actually awful for having discussions about anything other then soviet history, not saying i dont think it can improve but god danm.
most of place is actually awful for having discussions about anything other then soviet history
And then all the crackers doing that armchair navelgazing will without fail attempt to simply bolt not only the Soviet way of doing things, but the Soviet blind spots to their vision of the future too; and god forbid you try to tell them that what worked for the USSR will not work 1:1 for White Amerika (because you KNOW they're never factoring us into their plans for their glorious revolution except as quiet standard-bearers for THEIR 'liberation'). Then you're all kinds of "counter-revolutionary", "comprador", "segregationist", "genocide enthusiast"( thanks Horsh, never gonna let go of what happened to Prof. Flowers on my life), or my personal favorite, the one I've been called more times by white people on this site than any site I've ever been on, "black supremacist".
Then they wonder why I have so little faith in them that I don't even regard a 'left' in this nation that isn't predominantly Black or Indigenous.
Then you're all kinds of "counter-revolutionary", "comprador", "segregationist", "genocide enthusiast"( thanks Horsh, never gonna let go of what happened to Prof. Flowers on my life), or my personal favorite, the one I've been called more times by white people on this site than any site I've ever been on, "black supremacist".
Then they wonder why I have so little faith in them that I don't even regard a 'left' in this nation that isn't predominantly Black or Indigenous.
It's especially bullshit because the closest we've gotten to an actual communist revolution in the US was the Black Panther Party. Hell, that might even be the closest we've gotten to any sort of leftwing revolution in the first world along with the IRA. Both movements were directly opposed by whites in North America and by basically everyone in Europe. Not even the Red Army Faction in Germany had the momentum of the Panthers, despite using way more violence.
Then there's the Nation of Islam, which obviously was reactionary and not leftist. You could probably even make the argument it was black supremacist. The NoI still did more for civil rights in this country than any group of whites ever has or ever will. Even things white leftists take for granted were done by the NoI.
It's especially bullshit because the closest we've gotten to an actual communist revolution in the US was the Black Panther Party. Hell, that might even be the closest we've gotten to any sort of leftwing revolution in the first world along with the IRA.
Actual, honest-to-god community-based mutual aid that built outwards; even for the more undeniably critique-worthy patriarchal stance of the formation. (EDIT: BPP, not IRA. I don't know near enough about the Irish to be making a call like that.) And like I was dragging another a couple weeks ago: most these mfs that talk on the internet couldn't even properly organize the movement of surplus crop from their garden to their neighbors.
Then there's the Nation of Islam, which obviously was reactionary and not leftist.
It's still my stance that the only reason Farrakhan is still alive is because he sold somebody to the FBI. I can't immediately prove it, I don't have the receipts, but my gut tells me there's kin-blood on that man's hands.
You could probably even make the argument it was black supremacist.
Even for my quoting of Five Percenters and knowledge of the Supreme Mathematics, I'd still be inclined to agree with you. Now, I genuinely haven't met a member of NoI of this generation to know if their stances toward mixing ever softened, so I could be going off old knowledge, but they're so much more hardline than me that it genuinely insults me when someone calls me a supremacist lmfao. I keep thinking of that one white girl that even Malcolm X once said he regretted turning away-- there's always a couple in every few thousand.
The NoI still did more for civil rights in this country than any group of whites ever has or ever will. Even things white leftists take for granted were done by the NoI.
Still correct, even for how I feel about Farrakhan. But god forbid you mention them to one of these crackers; the concept of 'critical support' goes RIGHT out the window as soon as these settlers see melanin. And in that, we see why Malcolm turned hella crackers away.
It's still my stance that the only reason Farrakhan is still alive is because he sold somebody to the FBI. I can't immediately prove it, I don't have the receipts, but my gut tells me there's kin-blood on that man's hands.
It was announced last year and I think the actual trial starts in 2025. They're getting subpoenas and whatnot, plus requests using the Freedom of Information Act.
But like everyone knows those weren't rogue members of the NoI acting on their own. Elijah Muhammed, one of his sons, or Farrakhan ordered the hit and law enforcement helped them do it.
the concept of 'critical support' goes RIGHT out the window as soon as these settlers see melanin.
Then scold us for not supporting a white chud committing chud-on-chud violence lmao. Yes, it's good when fascists kill one another. No, we do not have to continue helping them. I'm not losing any sleep over some CEO getting shot. I also won't lose any sleep if his killer (a racist, homophobic, sexist asshat) gets tossed in prison.
It's still my stance that the only reason Farrakhan is still alive is because he sold somebody to the FBI. I can't immediately prove it, I don't have the receipts, but my gut tells me there's kin-blood on that man's hands.
I mean he basically admitted as much (youtube link; clip from FD Signifier vid). But tbh I don't think that would stop the feds from sending him to the next life anyway if they wanted, I doubt they have any honour in that sense. I think the only reason he's still around is because he provides a useful radicalisation vector that doesn't threaten the US hegemony and remains useful in that way. And yet NoI has still done more good than the average white communist with tHe mOsT cOrReCt opinion
If they're calling you a supremacist they have no idea what anything approaching a "black supremacist" really looks like. Was reminded of this exact thing, aside from interactions with hotep family members over the holidays, from FD Signifier's drake beef coverage; paraphrasing "Aubrey didn't mention any of Kendrick's 5 Percenter connections that would be better fuel because he literally doesn't know about this stuff, he doesn't understand it at all". The idea of white hexbears calling anyone here "black supremacist" lmao
the concept of 'critical support' goes RIGHT out the window
"Critical Support" means "if I say this you can't criticize me". There's hardly any actual critical support - it's either completely uncritical jerking over orthodox opinions, or vague signaling towards "support" that crumbles immediately (actually the usual thinly veiled white racist bullshit.)
"Aubrey didn't mention any of Kendrick's 5 Percenter connections that would be better fuel because he literally doesn't know about this stuff, he doesn't understand it at all". The idea of white hexbears calling anyone here "black supremacist" lmao
Not even wrong, they're not even in the places to even tangentially see what that really looks like. There was always a bit of mild hoteppery in my family; but that's to be expected-- I had hella radical family members during the heyday of BPP, but like all things Amerikan, that kinda melted away to aesthetics and mild-to-moderate reaction as our surviving leaders all sold out during my mother and grandmother's generations-- but I remember this one like, core memory from when I was a kid.
Was me, my mom, and my grandma having a weekly breakfast together 'cause grandma only got one day off a week, and to her, family wasn't no Fast and Furious meme line. We're comin' out the restaurant, and across the street from the place we were eating at, there were a bunch of honest to god Black Hebrew Israelites milling about on a corner and yelling; and the noise of disappointment that left my grandmother... I always gotta wonder, especially now that I can't ask her, what she saw in the way they were accosting people on the side of the road. This was one of our storytellers, so like... I know she had to have been seeing a 'how far we've fallen' in that.
I had hella radical family members during the heyday of BPP, but like all things Amerikan, that kinda melted away to aesthetics
now that I can't ask her, what she saw
Always how it is huh. Had uncles who were with the BPP in Chicago, were friends with Muhammad Ali, were traveled and read and deep into the radical culture, and I was just too young or too distant from them. Passed a long time ago now, wish I could ask them what they thought
then again,
great grandma said to my mom many many years ago "if you don't care for family (like u said, real family) like me while I'm around, don't come to my funeral acting like you cared when I'm gone. I will get up out of the coffin and slap the hell outta you", so maybe those family rifts I was too young to be aware of were pretty deep
the ethiopia backing is bad because in one part Somalia became a socialist ML state before them and was the USSR ally in the horn, when the Ogaden war happen, the USSR abandoned its old ally over ethiopia who was the stronger power in the Horn and Also with the Cubans lead an intervention to help ethiopia causing Somalia to lose the war and try to search for new allies eventually leading to the end of socialism in somalia and the collapse of the country.
as a punitive measure the Derg did ethnic cleasing with cuban support in the Ogaden region
the USSR abandoned its old ally over ethiopia who was the stronger power in the Horn
Didn't Somalia start the war and have irredentist (national chavunist nation-state expansionist) plans, tho? That's what I've heard, as an overview of events, at least in Wikipedia
causing Somalia to lose the war and try to search for new allies eventually leading to the end of socialism in somalia and the collapse of the country.
Apparently, in response to the Ogaden genocide, didn't the Ogaden refugees displace the local Ishaq tribe in Somali and create militant orgs to crack down upon them, which was the spark of the civil war that caused the end of socialism
Then again, I repeat, take it with a grain of salt, since I've read it from wikipedia
I haven't read much other perspectives on Somalia and Ethiopia
to me i see it as a national unification struggle similar to the DPRK, Ethiopia took over the Ogaden region around 60-80 years during Menelik II's conquests which were backed by imperialist power like France and Britain to have an allied control the interior of the Horn and even helped them put doing independist movements like the dervish movement
i did simplified the ogaden war to civil war but yes the refugee crisis did play a part in the somalian civil war
also i forgot during the ogaden war cuba and the ussr supported the Derg in the Eritrean War of Independence which was also bad
also most of what i know is from Horn of africa Leftists which seem to know their stuff
actually awful for having discussions about anything other then soviet history
Hexbear and other leftist spaces are not ready for some things I have to say because they're so hung up on Cold War history, which is incredibly Euro-centric. They generally have good opinions on Vietnam, for example, but then will have blind spots about how shitty the US was and the role its troops played in war crimes.
They generally have good opinions on Vietnam, for example, but then will have blind spots about how shitty the US was and the role its troops played in war crimes.
Fr
For example, how people like GDF, they often blame the Israel Lobby, if not Israel, for the U.S support of Israel
As far as I'm concerned, to me, it's blaming the prostitute for the husband's infidelity...
never mind the shared settler-colonial history of both these damned countries, the fact that Israel can be used as a military asset, a la Taiwan, never mind that it is instead the majority-Evangelical white nation-state of Amerikkka who saves Israel, because they see each other in our selves, and so forth
They accept this brainwashing theory that
obscures the real material basis that has historically made even the working poor in the imperial core complicit.
and end with this credo that:
masses everywhere are granted innocence, but robbed of their intelligence
Yeah blaming Isreal for American support of Isreal is another good example, especially because some people will end up showing their whole antisemitic ass selves. "There's a Jewish cabal making the genocidal death cult of evangelicals act out their genocidal death cult fantasies" is diverting blame from whitey to another group. They don't want to accept just how racist their friends and family are.
I hate to get all doomer, but the reason socialism hasn't happened in the Imperial Core is because the majority of white people, especially the so-called "middle class," don't want it. They will choose fascism over communism when given the choice.
remember when people on hexbear this summer were saying every company in china is worker run now? remember the reasonable people getting ratioed?
I'm sorry but I don't recall something like that being said... closest was that China was cracking down on real estate capitalist looters, you know, taking gradual steps, but nothing ridiculous like that (I'm pretty sure Hexbear flipflops between doomer, bloomer, and "nothing really happens" a lot, so maybe there's a possibility something like that was said)
that was the moment i realized that this most of place is actually awful for having discussions about anything other then soviet history,
I mean, how would y'all know, regarding economic and foreign policy of Global South countries like China, and the other remaining socialist nations? Let alone anti-imperialist yet flawed, if not possibly progressive countries like the Sankara-inspired Sahel countries (at least Asante comments about them), Axis of Resistance in Middle East, and so forth
I mean, for Christ's sake, as much as the overall Hexbear community may suck, I really feel like this is just subtweeting about the news comm.
China has made all companies worker-controlled. I would show this article to anyone that claims otherwise. This is worker democracy.
China is still a dictatorship of the proletariat.
direct quote from the post, and you can see dissenters getting ratioed
I mean, for Christ's sake, as much as the overall Hexbear community may suck, I really feel like this is just subtweeting about the news comm.
i mean ill openly criticize the news com no worries there, its basically not usable anymore (for me)
remember when people on hexbear this summer were saying every company in china is worker run now? remember the reasonable people getting ratioed? that was the moment i realized that this most of place is actually awful for having discussions about anything other then soviet history, not saying i dont think it can improve but god danm.
And then all the crackers doing that armchair navelgazing will without fail attempt to simply bolt not only the Soviet way of doing things, but the Soviet blind spots to their vision of the future too; and god forbid you try to tell them that what worked for the USSR will not work 1:1 for White Amerika (because you KNOW they're never factoring us into their plans for their glorious revolution except as quiet standard-bearers for THEIR 'liberation'). Then you're all kinds of "counter-revolutionary", "comprador", "segregationist", "genocide enthusiast"( thanks Horsh, never gonna let go of what happened to Prof. Flowers on my life), or my personal favorite, the one I've been called more times by white people on this site than any site I've ever been on, "black supremacist".
Then they wonder why I have so little faith in them that I don't even regard a 'left' in this nation that isn't predominantly Black or Indigenous.
It's especially bullshit because the closest we've gotten to an actual communist revolution in the US was the Black Panther Party. Hell, that might even be the closest we've gotten to any sort of leftwing revolution in the first world along with the IRA. Both movements were directly opposed by whites in North America and by basically everyone in Europe. Not even the Red Army Faction in Germany had the momentum of the Panthers, despite using way more violence.
Then there's the Nation of Islam, which obviously was reactionary and not leftist. You could probably even make the argument it was black supremacist. The NoI still did more for civil rights in this country than any group of whites ever has or ever will. Even things white leftists take for granted were done by the NoI.
Actual, honest-to-god community-based mutual aid that built outwards; even for the more undeniably critique-worthy patriarchal stance of the formation. (EDIT: BPP, not IRA. I don't know near enough about the Irish to be making a call like that.) And like I was dragging another a couple weeks ago: most these mfs that talk on the internet couldn't even properly organize the movement of surplus crop from their garden to their neighbors.
It's still my stance that the only reason Farrakhan is still alive is because he sold somebody to the FBI. I can't immediately prove it, I don't have the receipts, but my gut tells me there's kin-blood on that man's hands.
Even for my quoting of Five Percenters and knowledge of the Supreme Mathematics, I'd still be inclined to agree with you. Now, I genuinely haven't met a member of NoI of this generation to know if their stances toward mixing ever softened, so I could be going off old knowledge, but they're so much more hardline than me that it genuinely insults me when someone calls me a supremacist lmfao. I keep thinking of that one white girl that even Malcolm X once said he regretted turning away-- there's always a couple in every few thousand.
Still correct, even for how I feel about Farrakhan. But god forbid you mention them to one of these crackers; the concept of 'critical support' goes RIGHT out the window as soon as these settlers see melanin. And in that, we see why Malcolm turned hella crackers away.
This is still ongoing:
Malcolm X assassination lawsuit
It was announced last year and I think the actual trial starts in 2025. They're getting subpoenas and whatnot, plus requests using the Freedom of Information Act.
But like everyone knows those weren't rogue members of the NoI acting on their own. Elijah Muhammed, one of his sons, or Farrakhan ordered the hit and law enforcement helped them do it.
Then scold us for not supporting a white chud committing chud-on-chud violence lmao. Yes, it's good when fascists kill one another. No, we do not have to continue helping them. I'm not losing any sleep over some CEO getting shot. I also won't lose any sleep if his killer (a racist, homophobic, sexist asshat) gets tossed in prison.
I mean he basically admitted as much (youtube link; clip from FD Signifier vid). But tbh I don't think that would stop the feds from sending him to the next life anyway if they wanted, I doubt they have any honour in that sense. I think the only reason he's still around is because he provides a useful radicalisation vector that doesn't threaten the US hegemony and remains useful in that way. And yet NoI has still done more good than the average white communist with tHe mOsT cOrReCt opinion
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
If they're calling you a supremacist they have no idea what anything approaching a "black supremacist" really looks like. Was reminded of this exact thing, aside from interactions with hotep family members over the holidays, from FD Signifier's drake beef coverage; paraphrasing "Aubrey didn't mention any of Kendrick's 5 Percenter connections that would be better fuel because he literally doesn't know about this stuff, he doesn't understand it at all". The idea of white hexbears calling anyone here "black supremacist" lmao
"Critical Support" means "if I say this you can't criticize me". There's hardly any actual critical support - it's either completely uncritical jerking over orthodox opinions, or vague signaling towards "support" that crumbles immediately (actually the usual thinly veiled white racist bullshit.)
Not even wrong, they're not even in the places to even tangentially see what that really looks like. There was always a bit of mild hoteppery in my family; but that's to be expected-- I had hella radical family members during the heyday of BPP, but like all things Amerikan, that kinda melted away to aesthetics and mild-to-moderate reaction as our surviving leaders all sold out during my mother and grandmother's generations-- but I remember this one like, core memory from when I was a kid.
Was me, my mom, and my grandma having a weekly breakfast together 'cause grandma only got one day off a week, and to her, family wasn't no Fast and Furious meme line. We're comin' out the restaurant, and across the street from the place we were eating at, there were a bunch of honest to god Black Hebrew Israelites milling about on a corner and yelling; and the noise of disappointment that left my grandmother... I always gotta wonder, especially now that I can't ask her, what she saw in the way they were accosting people on the side of the road. This was one of our storytellers, so like... I know she had to have been seeing a 'how far we've fallen' in that.
Always how it is huh. Had uncles who were with the BPP in Chicago, were friends with Muhammad Ali, were traveled and read and deep into the radical culture, and I was just too young or too distant from them. Passed a long time ago now, wish I could ask them what they thought
then again,
great grandma said to my mom many many years ago "if you don't care for family (like u said, real family) like me while I'm around, don't come to my funeral acting like you cared when I'm gone. I will get up out of the coffin and slap the hell outta you", so maybe those family rifts I was too young to be aware of were pretty deep
Not sure, while most people do have a negative view of
because of the secret speech thats were most of the criticism ends
I dont see people talking much of the failures of brezhnev like backing ethiopia or they blame like 90% of the sino-soviet split on Mao
which is WILD
Ok, I see regarding the 1980 Ethiopia famine (jeez, a lot of ML-on-ML infighting in the 80s, not only in Cambodia, but Ethiopia as well)
the ethiopia backing is bad because in one part Somalia became a socialist ML state before them and was the USSR ally in the horn, when the Ogaden war happen, the USSR abandoned its old ally over ethiopia who was the stronger power in the Horn and Also with the Cubans lead an intervention to help ethiopia causing Somalia to lose the war and try to search for new allies eventually leading to the end of socialism in somalia and the collapse of the country.
as a punitive measure the Derg did ethnic cleasing with cuban support in the Ogaden region
Didn't Somalia start the war and have irredentist (national chavunist nation-state expansionist) plans, tho? That's what I've heard, as an overview of events, at least in Wikipedia
Apparently, in response to the Ogaden genocide, didn't the Ogaden refugees displace the local Ishaq tribe in Somali and create militant orgs to crack down upon them, which was the spark of the civil war that caused the end of socialism
Then again, I repeat, take it with a grain of salt, since I've read it from wikipedia
I haven't read much other perspectives on Somalia and Ethiopia
to me i see it as a national unification struggle similar to the DPRK, Ethiopia took over the Ogaden region around 60-80 years during Menelik II's conquests which were backed by imperialist power like France and Britain to have an allied control the interior of the Horn and even helped them put doing independist movements like the dervish movement
i did simplified the ogaden war to civil war but yes the refugee crisis did play a part in the somalian civil war
also i forgot during the ogaden war cuba and the ussr supported the Derg in the Eritrean War of Independence which was also bad
also most of what i know is from Horn of africa Leftists which seem to know their stuff
Can I have what they wrote about the situation of Horn of Africa?
Its mostly via tweets,
Here is one
They also have a podcast but i havent heard it
Hexbear and other leftist spaces are not ready for some things I have to say because they're so hung up on Cold War history, which is incredibly Euro-centric. They generally have good opinions on Vietnam, for example, but then will have blind spots about how shitty the US was and the role its troops played in war crimes.
Fr
For example, how people like GDF, they often blame the Israel Lobby, if not Israel, for the U.S support of Israel
As far as I'm concerned, to me, it's blaming the prostitute for the husband's infidelity...
never mind the shared settler-colonial history of both these damned countries, the fact that Israel can be used as a military asset, a la Taiwan, never mind that it is instead the majority-Evangelical white nation-state of Amerikkka who saves Israel, because they see each other in our selves, and so forth
They accept this brainwashing theory that
and end with this credo that:
Yeah blaming Isreal for American support of Isreal is another good example, especially because some people will end up showing their whole antisemitic ass selves. "There's a Jewish cabal making the genocidal death cult of evangelicals act out their genocidal death cult fantasies" is diverting blame from whitey to another group. They don't want to accept just how racist their friends and family are.
I hate to get all doomer, but the reason socialism hasn't happened in the Imperial Core is because the majority of white people, especially the so-called "middle class," don't want it. They will choose fascism over communism when given the choice.
I'm sorry but I don't recall something like that being said... closest was that China was cracking down on real estate capitalist looters, you know, taking gradual steps, but nothing ridiculous like that (I'm pretty sure Hexbear flipflops between doomer, bloomer, and "nothing really happens" a lot, so maybe there's a possibility something like that was said)
I mean, how would y'all know, regarding economic and foreign policy of Global South countries like China, and the other remaining socialist nations? Let alone anti-imperialist yet flawed, if not possibly progressive countries like the Sankara-inspired Sahel countries (at least Asante comments about them), Axis of Resistance in Middle East, and so forth
I mean, for Christ's sake, as much as the overall Hexbear community may suck, I really feel like this is just subtweeting about the news comm.
https://hexbear.net/post/2412952
278 upbears
direct quote from the post, and you can see dissenters getting ratioed
i mean ill openly criticize the news com no worries there, its basically not usable anymore (for me)