Basically, what it comes down to is: In my heart of hearts, I just don't believe that a revolution will happen in my lifetime, even if I live to be an old-ass man.

So if I were to just go all-in on hoping for revolution as opposed to anything electoralism-related, in my brain, I'd pretty much be admitting to myself that I personally won't live to see anything get really significantly better, that when I die everything's still gonna suck or be even worse than when I was born.

And I guess I just can't bear to admit that to myself.

  • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Last summer was nowhere close to a revolution. It has nothing to do with leadership, either. It's extremely counterproductive to not see this clearly.

    Most protests last summer started peaceful and stayed that way unless cops started beating and gassing people. Most protesters weren't armed and probably didn't even have access to arms. And despite all of the police violence, you could be very sure that when you went to a protest you weren't going to wind up dead. Independent of the lack of leadership, three absolutely crucial things were missing: arms, mass willingness to kill other human beings, and mass willingness to die if necessary.

    And all of that probably doesn't make the top five reasons why we're nowhere close to a revolution. Talking about it as if it's imminent is as far from reality as Three Percenters who think they're going to wake up to the Day of the Rope. Nothing good will come from fooling ourselves into thinking otherwise.

    • duderium [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Wasn't 1905 peaceful until the tsar's troops opened fire on a bunch of protestors who were carrying his portrait?

      • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        That's only one of maybe a dozen reasons why there isn't a revolution around the corner.

        This is magical thinking -- thinking that we're on the verge of this spontaneous, seemingly impossible thing that will solve our problems.

        • duderium [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I can't say when the revolution will happen. Nor can I say if a nuclear war or some other catastrophe will happen first. But to think that things will just go on forever like this—isn't that also pretty crazy? Do you think that fifty or a hundred years from now, everything is pretty much just going to be the same, but worse?

    • JuneFall [none/use name]
      ·
      4 years ago

      You know that in 1917 the majority of protesters weren't willing to kill for bread? While you migh tbe right with your assessment where is your data and the empiricism to come to your conclusions?

      The events mattered, how and in what way we have to find out, but having preconceived notions about them is a big problem - even if we necessarily have to draw it together with our world view.

      • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        where is your data and the empiricism to come to your conclusions?

        This question should be directed at the folks saying a socialist revolution is imminent.

        But if you insist, you can start with how no socialist revolution has succeeded (or come close, really) in the imperial core. If you want to call Russia the imperial core, that was still a century ago, in a context that might as well be another universe. You can also look at how the last time we had anything worth calling a revolution it was a reactionary one that depended on the support of much of the political elite. Same with the time before that. You can look at the long history of American leftist social movements, none of which turned into anything worth calling a revolution, and certainly none of which were successful on revolutionary terms.

        If people actually buy into this we all need to log off for about a month.

        • JuneFall [none/use name]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          But if you insist, you can start with how no socialist revolution has succeeded (or come close, really) in the imperial core

          This isn't an argument for data in what we talk about. This is Hegelian, not Marxist thought. Just cause reality was a certain way, doesn't mean it is like that cause of absolute reason. Though it is an argument for your framework of revolutions, that - why exactly? - the Imperial core is not able to deliver revolutions.

          If you want to call Russia the imperial core, that was still a century ago

          So you basically want to say 'revolutions don't happen'? This I would say is not very empirical, even if we ignore stuff like the fall of the Berlin wall. There are also some alternatives which brought into question the means of production for small scales.

          You can also look at how the last time we had anything worth calling a revolution it was a reactionary one that depended on the support of much of the political elite

          I assume you talk about the US. It might be good to hold the heterogenities in mind that are true for the US. This means the contradictions between white supremacy and powerful actors in the country, as well as the heterogeneity of vast sways of land in terms of real living situation.

          You can look at the long history of American leftist social movements, none of which turned into anything worth calling a revolution, and certainly none of which were successful on revolutionary terms.

          I would say you really have to talk collectively more about doing real organizing for yourself and to learn more of the history of the US and the workers of the world.

          You are much too apathetically inclined in regards to the facts of what did happen. To ignore the militant miner strikes and the organization (albeit liberal in parts) of the black conscious movement means you are not historical materialist.

          TL;DR The most important thing is to look at objective facts and those have to contain large collections of linked numbers. If you argue about "there never was" or from your subjective point of view, you are not looking at the objective reality.