My first long(-ish)-term relationship was at 25, and before that I definitely was one of those "Woe is me, I will never get a date" people. Then I met a very promiscuous girl at a grocery store (she approached me first) and she cheated on her boyfriend with me for a couple months until she found a new guy to cheat on her boyfriend with. That gave me the confidence I needed to ask out a coworker at work, who was my first real long-term partner.
Now that I "know how the game works", I have more confidence playing. I use the dating apps and do pretty well. I would say that the best thing you can do is keep a level of detachment. My problem before was that I would develop crushes on people and only act on them when I was sure it was what I wanted; I'd ask out maybe one person I really liked per year, and while I'd occasionally get a date, never anything serious or long-term. Now pretty much every time I have a reasonably friendly conversation with a person I find attractive, I give them my number and say I'd like to get lunch sometime. I'd guess I have about a 50% success rate on meeting up with people I approach this way, and maybe 10% for sex.
If you ask out people after you start crushing, the 90% of the time when they just aren't interested can be demoralizing. The key is just to be open and friendly, and cast a wide net (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take!).
To be fair, she didn't ask me out. She just started a conversation (iirc, about whether I'd tried a candy bar she was interested in before). I'm not horribly ugly but I'm also not above-average in the looks department; I don't get girls asking me out all the time.
But candy bars turned into an introduction ("Hey I'm Drew", "Hey I'm [girl]"), and then I gave her my number and told her I'd like to get lunch or something sometime. We made plans to get icecream but then she backed out because she had a boyfriend. I texted her back a couple weeks later to ask if they were still together, she said "Yeah but I'm up for meeting up anyways".
My advice would just be to be bold and be selfish. If it won't get you fired, expelled, or arrested, shoot your shot. Don't be too pushy, whiny, or entitled - but her phone has a block button. She'll use it if she doesn't want to hear from you.
My advice would just be to be bold and be selfish. If it won't get you fired, expelled, or arrested, shoot your shot.
Wholeheartedly agree, but I think too many think that you should never "bother" a girl under any circumstance. Whereas I think it's perfectly fine to strike up a conversation even if she may be "busy" because it's your life and you don't want any regrets.
To be clear, I don't have a 50% success rate on meeting up on the dating apps. In the last three months I've been using them, I've had maybe 30-40 matches, 10-15 actual conversations, and actual dates with two people. Usually things end at; Me: "Want to get lunch sometime?", Her: "I'd love to get lunch sometime!", Me: "Okay, when are you free?", Her: "...". Cis women are universally awful at holding conversations (out of those 10-15 actual conversations, like 3-5 were trans women - basically every time I matched with a trans woman they could actually hold a conversation)
Generally speaking, women do not talk to people they are not interesting in being friends with. If they put in the effort of a one-on-one conversation and they aren't actively trying to get away, it means they like you. Maybe not "Relationship material" or "hookup" like-you, but more likely than not "Getting lunch sometime" or "Taking a walk at the park" like-you.
I'm not saying it's easy, I wouldn't have had the confidence to do it unless an incredibly racist neurospicy NEET decided that the guy stocking candy at the drugstore would make a good fuck. The only advice I can give is: be friendly, talk to people, give them your phone number. Be persistent, but not whiny or entitled. Don't be afraid to text people who didn't respond to your last text. Don't hesitate to reach out to people who you've lost touch with.
It's also worth mentioning that I used to have extreme anxiety issues (couldn't wear shorts or less than two layers of clothes, couldn't drive on highways, practically agoraphobic at times, lots of social anxiety) but I started Prozac recently which helps with that.
Generally speaking, women do not talk to people they are not interesting in being friends with. If they put in the effort of a one-on-one conversation and they aren't actively trying to get away, it means they like you.
That's what I want to think when I match with someone. But then the conversation inevitably fizzles out like it does for you (except not with me asking them out for lunch, I never feel like there's enough rapport even for that). Which leaves me to think that none of these girls actually enjoyed talking to me.
One thing I've realized about online dating is that your matches usually (1) Have horrible attention spans and (2) Want instant gratification.
In my experience, if you don't manage to meet up the night you match, your odds of ever meeting trend quickly towards 0. If you don't at least set a date the night you match, your odds of ever meeting up might as well be 0.
There's a current of thought that the best way to use dating apps is to go slow, let them get comfortable with you, and after you've been chatting for a week and you've gotten to know each other, you make a date to meet. This is great in theory, but in practice she will get bored and either ghost you or switch to asynchronous, "reply to your message the next day" mode after anywhere from a couple hours to a couple days. This isn't because you're ugly or boring (though that might be true, I don't know you), it's because everyone has shit attention spans by default and the majority of women just don't have the same desperation for sex that men do that keeps us engaged.
So, yeah - be as fast as possible (but don't be pushy), and cast a wide net. If you've got multiple matches at the same time don't be afraid to tell 6 people "Hey I'm free tomorrow want to meet up" because more likely than not 5-6 of them are going to flake. One of my big mistakes early on was setting aside a day to meet up with someone only to have them cancel and then I just spend the day home alone. If you want to actually get a date in a reasonable amount of time, you need to make plans with multiple people for the same day and be okay with possibly being the one who has to cancel on someone.
yeah, makes sense. I admit I don't feel terribly engaged by the whole "get to know someone over text messages on a horrible app over the course of a few weeks" thing, either. But I'm really shy so it's all I've ever tried.
My first long(-ish)-term relationship was at 25, and before that I definitely was one of those "Woe is me, I will never get a date" people. Then I met a very promiscuous girl at a grocery store (she approached me first) and she cheated on her boyfriend with me for a couple months until she found a new guy to cheat on her boyfriend with. That gave me the confidence I needed to ask out a coworker at work, who was my first real long-term partner.
Now that I "know how the game works", I have more confidence playing. I use the dating apps and do pretty well. I would say that the best thing you can do is keep a level of detachment. My problem before was that I would develop crushes on people and only act on them when I was sure it was what I wanted; I'd ask out maybe one person I really liked per year, and while I'd occasionally get a date, never anything serious or long-term. Now pretty much every time I have a reasonably friendly conversation with a person I find attractive, I give them my number and say I'd like to get lunch sometime. I'd guess I have about a 50% success rate on meeting up with people I approach this way, and maybe 10% for sex.
If you ask out people after you start crushing, the 90% of the time when they just aren't interested can be demoralizing. The key is just to be open and friendly, and cast a wide net (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take!).
Yeah but is this realistically going to happen to most guys? I highy
To be fair, she didn't ask me out. She just started a conversation (iirc, about whether I'd tried a candy bar she was interested in before). I'm not horribly ugly but I'm also not above-average in the looks department; I don't get girls asking me out all the time.
But candy bars turned into an introduction ("Hey I'm Drew", "Hey I'm [girl]"), and then I gave her my number and told her I'd like to get lunch or something sometime. We made plans to get icecream but then she backed out because she had a boyfriend. I texted her back a couple weeks later to ask if they were still together, she said "Yeah but I'm up for meeting up anyways".
My advice would just be to be bold and be selfish. If it won't get you fired, expelled, or arrested, shoot your shot. Don't be too pushy, whiny, or entitled - but her phone has a block button. She'll use it if she doesn't want to hear from you.
Wholeheartedly agree, but I think too many think that you should never "bother" a girl under any circumstance. Whereas I think it's perfectly fine to strike up a conversation even if she may be "busy" because it's your life and you don't want any regrets.
how do you do it? how do you have such a success rate?
To be clear, I don't have a 50% success rate on meeting up on the dating apps. In the last three months I've been using them, I've had maybe 30-40 matches, 10-15 actual conversations, and actual dates with two people. Usually things end at; Me: "Want to get lunch sometime?", Her: "I'd love to get lunch sometime!", Me: "Okay, when are you free?", Her: "...". Cis women are universally awful at holding conversations (out of those 10-15 actual conversations, like 3-5 were trans women - basically every time I matched with a trans woman they could actually hold a conversation)
Generally speaking, women do not talk to people they are not interesting in being friends with. If they put in the effort of a one-on-one conversation and they aren't actively trying to get away, it means they like you. Maybe not "Relationship material" or "hookup" like-you, but more likely than not "Getting lunch sometime" or "Taking a walk at the park" like-you.
I'm not saying it's easy, I wouldn't have had the confidence to do it unless an incredibly racist neurospicy NEET decided that the guy stocking candy at the drugstore would make a good fuck. The only advice I can give is: be friendly, talk to people, give them your phone number. Be persistent, but not whiny or entitled. Don't be afraid to text people who didn't respond to your last text. Don't hesitate to reach out to people who you've lost touch with.
It's also worth mentioning that I used to have extreme anxiety issues (couldn't wear shorts or less than two layers of clothes, couldn't drive on highways, practically agoraphobic at times, lots of social anxiety) but I started Prozac recently which helps with that.
That's what I want to think when I match with someone. But then the conversation inevitably fizzles out like it does for you (except not with me asking them out for lunch, I never feel like there's enough rapport even for that). Which leaves me to think that none of these girls actually enjoyed talking to me.
One thing I've realized about online dating is that your matches usually (1) Have horrible attention spans and (2) Want instant gratification.
In my experience, if you don't manage to meet up the night you match, your odds of ever meeting trend quickly towards 0. If you don't at least set a date the night you match, your odds of ever meeting up might as well be 0.
There's a current of thought that the best way to use dating apps is to go slow, let them get comfortable with you, and after you've been chatting for a week and you've gotten to know each other, you make a date to meet. This is great in theory, but in practice she will get bored and either ghost you or switch to asynchronous, "reply to your message the next day" mode after anywhere from a couple hours to a couple days. This isn't because you're ugly or boring (though that might be true, I don't know you), it's because everyone has shit attention spans by default and the majority of women just don't have the same desperation for sex that men do that keeps us engaged.
So, yeah - be as fast as possible (but don't be pushy), and cast a wide net. If you've got multiple matches at the same time don't be afraid to tell 6 people "Hey I'm free tomorrow want to meet up" because more likely than not 5-6 of them are going to flake. One of my big mistakes early on was setting aside a day to meet up with someone only to have them cancel and then I just spend the day home alone. If you want to actually get a date in a reasonable amount of time, you need to make plans with multiple people for the same day and be okay with possibly being the one who has to cancel on someone.
yeah, makes sense. I admit I don't feel terribly engaged by the whole "get to know someone over text messages on a horrible app over the course of a few weeks" thing, either. But I'm really shy so it's all I've ever tried.