community rules: We do not platform fascists and refuse to engage in any form of debate with them on this platform. If you don't understand why engaging in debates with fascists is a terrible idea, go ask in one of the communities and/or use a search engine.
I do in fact not understand.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” -- Sartre
I see, I'm not quite convinced that expecting everyone you argue with is doing so in bad faith is a great move. But on the internet is definitely a good rule of thumb to go by
expecting everyone you argue with is doing so in bad faith
Not everyone, just fascists/white supremacists. Socdems, libs, and cons can be argued with. But don't platform fascists: protest them and keep them off your streets.
yeah i see it. The only issue im left with is the assumption that someones mind cant be changed, but i suppose thats the wrong way to look at it. Really its not about trying to change minds but about preventing the spread of a terrible ideology. thanks for the answers
Arguments dont tend to change minds as often as we think they do, especially not when the person you argue with is hostile to your ideas. Really the goal is to make fascists feel divided, small, and hated, as they should be, so that their ideology cannot manifest itself and harm people.
The Alt-Right Playbook covers some of the tactics used by fash, for a clearer picture of why they specifically are not worth engaging with
You're giving legitimacy when you're giving a fascist your time and consideration. If you're polite and patient with a fascist, that emboldens them and gives observers the impression that fascists aren't that bad.
You can debate whether an idea is fascist (to a point. You don't need to engage with something like Holocaust denialism ), but that's still kinda iffy.
What is there to debate? Fascism is not a real ideology. They only have one actual belief, their own supremacy. Everything else is whatever ad hoc opinions that advances that belief at the moment. They will blend seamlessly from being principled believers in freeze peach when Trumpers are banned from Twitter to cheering on police violence against leftist protesters.
You can point out the hypocrisy of their mutually contradictory beliefs to them and it won't work at all. They don't feel owned, double standards is what they are all about.
Debating fascists is a frustrating waste of time. You're not going to convince them to stop being fascists. Your facts and logic is not going to work on them. It's like playing chess with a pigeon, they will just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and prance around like they win the thing.
One could argue that you could debate them to expose the absurdity of their beliefs to the audience, thereby making them less susceptible to becoming fascists. But you can do that without debating fascists. Taking their opinions seriously will only lend them an air of underserved legitimacy. Dunk on them instead, bully them and make fun of them.
