Vaush weighs in on the SDL allegations: “I haven’t seen anything that looks bad enough that I would stop associating with him.” pic.twitter.com/Vw1iztEXeN— total liberation 🌱🏴 (@AntifaPill) April 24, 2021
It wouldn't surprise me if they are ops, but the ideological climate created by decades of consent manufacturing unfortunately also means that communities with their views are likely to emerge organically. Sure, it would be a nice scoop if we had evidence that V*ush was on a 3-letter agency payroll, or that he was funded by the DNC during the election, but how likely is it that we can prove that in the foreseeable future?
From all i've seen, the best way to deal with supposed ops is not to call them an op, but to call out their wrecker behavior. All their fans definitely aren't paid by somebody else, you can't convince them by telling them they're useful idiots for the CIA. People just write you off as a crank and double down when you tell them that. But if you point out how this behavior is destructive, that it means we're at each other's throat instead of facing our real enemies, capital and fascism, how their class collaborationism is a failed concept, how the views of their idols on trans people, on the struggle of the black community, are remnants of reactionary discurses, how continued support of imperialism enables the murder of millions of people across the world, you at least have the chance to get through to some of them.
V*ush's fans are by definition 1) people who want to be on the left, even though they don't get what comes with that and 2) people susceptible to a persuasive argument. If they weren't, they wouldn't be part of a community stanning a sophist debate bro. That's a different demo than your average 4chan edgelord and arguing with them (if you find you have the time for that; i usually don't) should work along different lines as well.
Remember that V*ush had to stop debating "tankies" because platforming Hakim and Luna Oi meant that some of his fans found they actually made good points. Showing these people a more coherent, unwarped, undiluted form of leftism can absolutely work. But noticing the similarities between V/(%)ush and COINTELPRO is at the end of that process, not at the start.
It wouldn't surprise me if they are ops, but the ideological climate created by decades of consent manufacturing unfortunately also means that communities with their views are likely to emerge organically. Sure, it would be a nice scoop if we had evidence that V*ush was on a 3-letter agency payroll, or that he was funded by the DNC during the election, but how likely is it that we can prove that in the foreseeable future?
From all i've seen, the best way to deal with supposed ops is not to call them an op, but to call out their wrecker behavior. All their fans definitely aren't paid by somebody else, you can't convince them by telling them they're useful idiots for the CIA. People just write you off as a crank and double down when you tell them that. But if you point out how this behavior is destructive, that it means we're at each other's throat instead of facing our real enemies, capital and fascism, how their class collaborationism is a failed concept, how the views of their idols on trans people, on the struggle of the black community, are remnants of reactionary discurses, how continued support of imperialism enables the murder of millions of people across the world, you at least have the chance to get through to some of them.
V*ush's fans are by definition 1) people who want to be on the left, even though they don't get what comes with that and 2) people susceptible to a persuasive argument. If they weren't, they wouldn't be part of a community stanning a sophist debate bro. That's a different demo than your average 4chan edgelord and arguing with them (if you find you have the time for that; i usually don't) should work along different lines as well.
Remember that V*ush had to stop debating "tankies" because platforming Hakim and Luna Oi meant that some of his fans found they actually made good points. Showing these people a more coherent, unwarped, undiluted form of leftism can absolutely work. But noticing the similarities between V/(%)ush and COINTELPRO is at the end of that process, not at the start.
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OTOH, while i was typing out my reply, news broke that SDL comes from a family working for the DOD and the CIA lol.
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Good points.