Aren't there sources other than Adrian Zenz to use in this sort of centrist-socialist article? ('Xinjiang oppression is real but stop doing imperialism over it')

  • ElGosso [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Western socdems stop supporting interventionism challenge

    • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      We have to do something about Yugoslavia, we have to do something about the DDR, we have to do something about Afghanistan, we have to do something about Guatemala, we have to do something about Nicaragua, we have to do something about Grenada, we have to do something about Panama, we have to do something about China...

      Kinda fun how the common thread in all "we have to do something about X" propaganda is that the current administration and government of those countries is doing land reform and or social programs that raise living standards and wages.

      Also fun how "helping" them always ends up with tens or hundreds of thousands of excess deaths in the following years as well as massive reductions in employment, wages, and housing. it's great when "humanitarian bombs" level public infrastructure and industry and the IMF provides loans to rebuild it with the stipulation that it be privately owned.

      THIS HAS BEEN THE FUCKING PLAY SINCE 1870 MOTHERFUCKERS! YOU DON'T TO CLAIM IGNORANCE ANYMORE YOU FUCKING GHOULS, ROT IN A PIT GOD FUCK.

      • duderium [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        The beginning of Parenti's book about the destruction of Yugoslavia sounds, word-for-word, like descriptions of the corporate media's take on Uyghurs in China. It was legitimately disturbing to read. The American ruling class is doing literally the exact same thing they did in the nineties—"we must protect the Muslim minority in China/Yugoslavia"—and many many people who were alive at the time and who saw the results are falling for it. Thankfully China today is much stronger than Yugoslavia was in the nineties, but we can't assume that this situation will last forever. Using the market to enrich your country means that you are subjecting yourself to the market's anarchy. I think the CCP knows this and has seen what happened in places like Yugoslavia (which took on a shitload of debt from the West in the '70s I think, thereby dooming them to eventual collapse), and that they're doing their best to basically use capitalism to take over the world via the Belt and Road Initiative and many other policies, but it's a dangerous game and the best laid plans of mice and men etc. etc.

        • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Supporting Chezch fashists and helping them exterminate thousands of Slavs they missed in the Holocaust, displacing hundreds of thousands more with aerial bombardment then opening the doors for BP and United Steel to privatize what's left of the national infrastructure while hundreds of thousands more starve and unemployment skyrockets to 30% (from 0% or negligible during the socialist era).

          Arming Muslim fascists that helped the Nazis in WWII to kill the refugees from the last bombardment and Muslims who identify as Yugoslavs, then doing the same thing to them after the ear ends.

          It's a fun trend how the only Muslim lives that matter are the Muslim terrorists and not the people.

        • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Paris Commune. They shut down all communication with the commune to prevent them from orgs organizing a peasant revolt. Then used French troops given back by the Germans to massacre the Communards while the papers complained about the "depravity" of the "whores standing shoulder to shoulder with men" and "property destruction by the savage communards" after murdering 30,000 women, children, and men mostly in cold blood.

          Basically every either uprising in any country was treated similarly. In America, Reconstruction era massacres of Freedmen and the whole John Brown saga before the war.

          The Boxer rebellion in China, they called them "violet xenophobes" for killing christian oppressors and destroying private property of imperialists. Literally read the wikipedia. It still uses that language.

          I'm sure there are more examples, but that's 3 off the top of my head

    • spez_hole [he/him,they/them]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      they'll throw in the line "but don't be handmaidens for warhawks" in an article where they act as handmaidens for warhawks

    • Quimby [any, any]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      I was actually thinking about this topic today. I've long taken it for granted that war, military action, interventions, etc etc etc are all necessarily incongruous with leftist beliefs. But leftism isn't inherently pacifist, right? It's opposed to unnecessary and immoral violence and the commercialization of violence. But if we accept violence as necessary in some cases (for example, in opposition to fascism), and we also accept the notion that there is a moral obligation to act (which we seem to believe when it comes to things like being anti-racist), doesn't it follow that leftism also dictates intervention in support of a maligned party who lacks recourse? I'm super conflicted now, tbh, and I'm really curious what y'all think.

      The history and manner of US intervention is obviously bad in many ways. I'm more thinking would the People's Army of FALGSC Hexbearistan have moral standing--or even the moral obligation--to intervene if Elon's Mars Colony started selling slaves or something?