On one hand, anticommunism was absolutely a motive force for the US before, during, and after the war. By “the US” I mean the government as such, its official actions and policies.
But on the other hand, hyping up a nascent version of what would become a paramilitary organization (the CIA) as the de facto state is itself an exaggeration. For whatever meddling the OSS got up to, that isn’t the same kind of power as the ability to command the military, as FDR had. Unless there is some secret dealings between FDR and the Nazis, or a substantive possibility that FDR would be couped by Nazi sympathizers, it’s really hard to imagine the US proper siding with the Nazis around 1940 when the US was already heavily backing Britain in terms of both word and direct material aid.
But it’s important to understand that a “country” is a fiction. The “USA” is just some words, an idea. The people in it have nothing to hold them together, other than this.
This kinda sounds like saying money is imaginary. It is only true in the most trivial sense. Countries do exist in the sense that power exists and social relations are real.
I think your point is simply to emphasize that there are factions within any state, so even if FDR wants one thing, he isn’t the state itself. But I think this is a weak argument when the US was demonstrably opposing the Nazis and aiding Britain through its foreign policy when it entered the war.
I digress though. I’m going to go down the rabbit hole and watch some of the videos about the OSS you recommended. Definitely not doubting the nefariousness of that group.
I meant that not FDR, not the Dulles, not the capitalists that backed the Nazis, not the Eugenics societies etc. are the “USA”, the “USA” is an idea, like money yes. That might be “dumb”, but it’s true. And like money, the way you and I see it is much different from how the people at the top see it.
People like us might look at the US when it entered the war and superficially see FDR and the military supporting Britain against the Nazis. But that is just one faction within the state apparatus. And only temporarily in power. After WW2, Allen Dulles became the longest running director of the CIA, and his brother Foster became the Secretary of State during Eisenhowers presidency.
There are other factions, older and more established sometimes, more “permanent”, that were under the covers doing everything they could to support the Nazis, and saw much of what FDR did as completely against their interests and view of what the “USA” is.
After WW2, and the end of the FDR era, they in many ways won.
The result really makes it seem like the nazis weren’t defeated in WW2, but were only internationalised and institutionalised by the US after it.
Just do a cursory reading of the founding members of the NATO army, the intelligence agency of Western Germany, the first ministers of the state there etc. And then check out the Nazi and fascist “stay behind” orgs that wreaked havoc on Europe after WW2. In Italy with P2, in Turkey and Greece, in France where Allen Dulles (secretly running the CIA after JFK fired him - there is good evidence of this, good book would be The Devil’s Chessboard) supported a coup against France etc etc.
I’m ambivalent about this portrayal.
On one hand, anticommunism was absolutely a motive force for the US before, during, and after the war. By “the US” I mean the government as such, its official actions and policies.
But on the other hand, hyping up a nascent version of what would become a paramilitary organization (the CIA) as the de facto state is itself an exaggeration. For whatever meddling the OSS got up to, that isn’t the same kind of power as the ability to command the military, as FDR had. Unless there is some secret dealings between FDR and the Nazis, or a substantive possibility that FDR would be couped by Nazi sympathizers, it’s really hard to imagine the US proper siding with the Nazis around 1940 when the US was already heavily backing Britain in terms of both word and direct material aid.
This kinda sounds like saying money is imaginary. It is only true in the most trivial sense. Countries do exist in the sense that power exists and social relations are real.
I think your point is simply to emphasize that there are factions within any state, so even if FDR wants one thing, he isn’t the state itself. But I think this is a weak argument when the US was demonstrably opposing the Nazis and aiding Britain through its foreign policy when it entered the war.
I digress though. I’m going to go down the rabbit hole and watch some of the videos about the OSS you recommended. Definitely not doubting the nefariousness of that group.
I meant that not FDR, not the Dulles, not the capitalists that backed the Nazis, not the Eugenics societies etc. are the “USA”, the “USA” is an idea, like money yes. That might be “dumb”, but it’s true. And like money, the way you and I see it is much different from how the people at the top see it.
People like us might look at the US when it entered the war and superficially see FDR and the military supporting Britain against the Nazis. But that is just one faction within the state apparatus. And only temporarily in power. After WW2, Allen Dulles became the longest running director of the CIA, and his brother Foster became the Secretary of State during Eisenhowers presidency.
There are other factions, older and more established sometimes, more “permanent”, that were under the covers doing everything they could to support the Nazis, and saw much of what FDR did as completely against their interests and view of what the “USA” is.
After WW2, and the end of the FDR era, they in many ways won.
The result really makes it seem like the nazis weren’t defeated in WW2, but were only internationalised and institutionalised by the US after it.
Just do a cursory reading of the founding members of the NATO army, the intelligence agency of Western Germany, the first ministers of the state there etc. And then check out the Nazi and fascist “stay behind” orgs that wreaked havoc on Europe after WW2. In Italy with P2, in Turkey and Greece, in France where Allen Dulles (secretly running the CIA after JFK fired him - there is good evidence of this, good book would be The Devil’s Chessboard) supported a coup against France etc etc.