Why dont this "leftists" go ask Pol Pot what happens when you dont read theory?

link

  • gvngndz [none/use name,comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    This... I'm sorry to say this is nothing but dogma, reading nothing but those you already agree with is dogma at it's purest. You are presupposing that leftism is correct, and then dismissing all non-leftist criticisms of it. Yes, different people have different values, the whole point of the dialectic is that we should still engage with these people and aim to understand where exactly our worldviews diverge and why they diverge. Simply saying "we have different values and can never understand each other" isn't enough.

    You say that most of the criticism towards leftism is not constructive, which may be true just because of how much trash is being pumped out, but that doesn't mean a lot of valid criticism isn't being made. I think that the "postmodern" criticism of Marxism (that Marxism is simply another Christianity influenced European philosophy that fall for the grand narrative trap) for example is very strong, let's not forget all arguments based on psychology (as cliche as it is, Communism doesn't work because of human nature is a legitimate argument that needs to be had). And the example you gave was of the Austrian economists, which is an unfair example as they are a fairly fringe group relative to the rest of economic thought.

    And once again, forget criticism, how are you planning on understanding leftism if you have never read any of the thinkers that it is based on?

    Anyways, I think there seems to be a core disagreement in our worldviews and how we view the world, I don't believe that simply knowing political philosophy is enough, I think that ethical philosophy is also very important if you want to do any politics, and if you are someone who for example believes in dialectical materialism, then you should also need to be educated in metaphysics, so that you can defend your beliefs or outgrow them. What I'm trying to get to is, good luck studying all that while reading only leftists.

      • gvngndz [none/use name,comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        You just edited your comment to include the criticism of postmodernism, the grand narrative thing isn't a stretch imo, infact I actually agree with the postmodernists on that one. And simply saying "it doesn't matter all I care about worker's emancipation" isn't a very wise take if you are aiming to use Marxism to emancipate workers. Because if postmodernism is true, Marxism (in it's traditional form) is false.

          • gvngndz [none/use name,comrade/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            4 years ago

            Sorry, I was sleeping, but, "Postmodernism" doesn't reject material reality existing(?) I don't really know what you're talking about. In fact "Postmodernism" isn't really a coherent ideology at all, all it is a rejection of grand narratives, which is something most people believe in.

            Anyways I don't really want to restart this argument.

        • ZizekianHotDogVendor [comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          Postmodernism couldn't be true by its own standards precisely because it rejects narratives of truth. Calling postmodernism true would be precisely nonsensical

      • gvngndz [none/use name,comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        The psychological angle isn't that people randomly kill each other(?), and equating pre-agricultural human societies with industrial ones is a big mistake, just because primitive communism existed in small tribes doesn't mean fully industrialized communism can exist in a world with billions of people.

        I ofcourse agree with you, I don't agree with their arguments, but we can't just ignore them and act like it's all "pseudoscience" especially when most of us aren't experts on the topic.

    • Pezevenk [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      reading nothing but those you already agree with is dogma at it’s purest.

      But again you presuppose that you agree with all these people which is really not the case.

      And the example you gave was of the Austrian economists, which is an unfair example as they are a fairly fringe group relative to the rest of economic thought.

      It's not so true any more. Neoclassical economics are very close to the Austrian school these days.

      What I’m trying to get to is, good luck studying all that while reading only leftists.

      I didn't say that. I said that it's not a good point to say that it would mean you don't read criticsm as if there isn't tons of criticism within the left. Also that most CRITICISM of the left (not most things that are said in general) outside the left is really not constructive at all.