Not when carnists like you support such a violent, oppressive, disturbing and disgusting ideology. You rape people like us, disable them and terrorise them until the very end - when you egregiously murder them. Have a fucking ounce of compassion you monstrous piece of shit.
CW: CARNISM/for violence, and sexual violence against people, racism, nazism, human slavery, environmental anxiety
479 million goats/year [1]🌱 574 million sheep/year [1]🌱 656 million turkeys/year [1]🌱 69,000 million chickens/year [1]🌱 1,500 million pigs/year [1]🌱 302 million cows/year [1]🌱 at least 900,000 million fish/year [2]🌱 at least 300,000 whales and dolphins in fishing bycatch/year [3]🌱 250,000 endangered turtles in fishing bycatch/year [3]🌱 salmon farms pass diseases to wild fish populations [4]🌱 carnivorous fish farms require even more wild fish feed [5]🌱 1/4 shark species threatened with extinction due to fishing [6]🌱 77% agricultural land for only 18% calorie/37% protein supply [7]🌱 livestock account for 31% of food emissions [8]🌱 twice as many emissions for livestock over crops for human consumption [8]🌱 only 6% of soy is grown for humans [9] 🌱 animal farmers given legal exception to bestiality laws [10]🌱 environmental racism of placing polluting animal farms in marginalized areas [11]🌱 65% lactose intolerance worldwide, higher in POC [12]🌱 right-wing ideologies predict greater acceptance of animal exploitation and more meat consumption [13] 🌱 milk and ties to nazis [14] 🌱 working in animal slaughter tied with PTSD, increased violent crimes [15]🌱 imported colonizer animals replacing native biodiversity[16] 🌱 farmed honeybees endanger critical native pollinaters and reduce species biodiversity [17]🌱 human slavery in fishing supply chain [18]🌱 amazon rainforest & indigenous homes destroyed for harvesting and feeding cows [19]🌱 watchdominion.com [20] 🌱 go vegan [21]
1 https://ourworldindata.org/meat-production 2 http://fishcount.org.uk/published/std/fishcountstudy.pdf 3 https://www.fishforward.eu/en/project/by-catch/ 4 http://www.eurocbc.org/Effects%20of%20Aquaculture%20on%20World%20Fish%20Supplies.htm 5 https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/full/10.1139/cjfas-2016-0379 6 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897121/ 7 https://ourworldindata.org/global-land-for-agriculture 8 https://ourworldindata.org/food-ghg-emissions 9 https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/soybeans 10 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320208999_How_Meat_Changed_Sex_The_Law_of_Interspecies_Intimacy_after_Industrial_Reproduction 11 https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC1440786&blobtype=pdf 12 https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/lactose-intolerance/#frequency 13 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886914000944 14 https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1373&context=asj 15 http://animalstudies.msu.edu/Slaughterhouses_and_Increased_Crime_Rates.pdf 16 https://ourworldindata.org/what-are-drivers-deforestation 17 https://www.wired.com/2015/04/youre-worrying-wrong-bees/ 18 https://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/Issue_Paper_-_TOC_in_the_Fishing_Industry.pdf 19 https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/11/brazil-halt-illegal-cattle-farms-fuelling-amazon-rainforest-destruction/ 20 https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch 21 https://veganbootcamp.org/
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Why don't you tell us what wins you over, and then apply that to yourself and come back when you actually give a shit.
I'm not even speaking for myself here I'm mostly vegan and trying to get there, and I agree with the ideology, I do however take whatever is getting thrown out from the hot bar at work when it's being given away because I'm poor as fuck. I came at this in good faith.
I don't want to hear someone who isn't vegan pretend to empathize with animals and people affected by animal agriculture for internet points.
You want this comm to grow and to get people to agree with you right? And I do agree with you.
lol bye
I know you're banned and can't reply, but for anyone else reading, the answer to this question is in the sidebar.
are you actually vegan?
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I do think it’s important to remember that carnists rape people, not animals.
So convince them animals are deserving of personhood without saying "they're raping you" that's just needless edgy shit that's going to turn people off especially people who have dealt with sexual violence personally. IMO this is a bad take.
Trying to convince a carnist that animals are deserving of personhood only serves to obfuscate what a carnist is actually doing to them. I should have content warned the post. I shouldn’t need to change my language just because the victim is a non human person. I wouldn’t be trying to convince Harvey Weinstein, for example, that his victims are deserving of personhood. That only serves to obfuscate the crime. That won’t bring the victims justice.
I made a mistake for not content warning this post. I won’t make the same mistake twice. It was in poor taste not to content warn. I’m trying to take accountability for that by editing it now - and not making the same mistake in the future.
I won’t change my language though. It isn’t edgy shit to call the behaviours of carnists what it is.
You're missing the forest for the trees here. Convincing people that animals deserve personhood should be a priority not a distraction.
Which is exactly what I’m doing by treating them as victims. Of course - I can always take the route of affirming sentience as base value in humans, then extending that. But I’m also giving them personhood through my language. Instead of calling them “non human animals”, “animals”, “non human beings”, “livestock”, “cows, pigs etc.”, I’m calling them “people” or “non human people”. Then instead of a passive construction of “people are being victimised”, I’m simply saying “carnists victimise people (both non human people, and human people)”, to hold carnists to account. I think anything else is obfuscation.
CW rape
`We wouldn’t say “humans are being sexually violent against humans”, we would say “humans are raping humans”. I don’t think it’s a good idea to use different language for non human victims - because that would simply other them (and create a hierarchy with humanity on top) - when the core thing is, in spite of them being not human and that they are different, the base value of experiencing subjectivity is the same.
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Sure, that is the assumption challenged by using non-othering language.
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No ableism, please
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This comm specifically has always been against baby steps and human centrism. People don't understand the scale of this crisis that afflicts literally trillions of sentient people yearly, and they're not gonna understand it if we keep acting like it's not a big deal. Neocarnism is soft denialism.
Carnists will always center themselves and their own reaction to being told what's happening as an excuse not to take action to stop what they're doing. Out of sight, out of mind. Carnists have short-term material motives to keep the victims of their actions out of sight and silenced.
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I don't think that's true. Different carnists are reached in different ways. You were probably a carnist at one point, and so was I.
There's long term material benefits to veganism and animal liberation. Solidarity is better than selfishness. Animal ag hurts us all
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Hardly a bad take. That’s what they’re doing. And I kind of think I get a free pass here because I dealt with sexual violence personally, as a child, too.
Okay but neither you or I are qualified to determine whether this is a bad take. I get a bad feeling about it, you think it's right, the rest is up for others to decide. Edited my above comment to reflect this
As the qualified take-assessing expert, I judge Maask's take as good
Needlessly hostile is when you actively make the most oppressive choice.
Cool but you're trying to convince people, no one's going to stop you from losing miserably even if you're right.
I suppose different forms of outreach work for different people. If a vegan was more aggressive with me sooner - I wouldn’t have continued to make such reprehensible choices for as long as I did.
You should at least content warning shit that mentions rape. This is edgy teenager energy and it's really offputting.
Ok - I’ll do that.
You edited it but didn't include rape in your CW. This is not it chief.
I don’t really think you can differentiate between types of violence that all traumatise non-human people. I think it’s weird to be honest to make a distinction between bestiality in animal agriculture and stuff like gestation and farrowing crates.
I should have content warned. I apologise to everyone here. I just struggle to make a distinction between different types of violence when they all blend so much. I will do better.
Nobody was saying any of this, you just came off as someone that might deliberately portraying veganism in the worst possible light. I was considering whether to report for wrecking because it was that bad, I'm reserving judgement for now but this is a bad post and most of your comments here are harmful to your proposed goal.
Carnists: is it wrong to murder and rape non-human people?
Carnists: no, it's the vegans who are wrong for pointing out that I actively support and fight for murdering and raping non-human people.