Isn't the whole point of hostages or human shields is that you're supposed to not kill them? I think it's generally seen as bad if you kill civilians when taking out "bad guys".

I do not understand why this became such a huge argument for why the Palestinian casualties are so high.

  • Yanqui_UXO [any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    If I understand correctly what you are referring to, I think the general argument is this: Hamas deliberately shoots rockets from civilian quarters, inviting retaliation in the said civilian quarters, and then uses images of dead children as propaganda. I don't think this is true for various reasons* but even if it were we'd again be missing the point framing issue like this because of how disproportionate the violence is and who started and perpetuates it.

    * Gaza strip is fucking tiny, first of all, and second, Israel last time I checked has quite precisely bombed several civilian high rises, a TV station, and the ministry of finance--kinda hard to shoot rockets from those; there was also a vid circulating on Telegram today, to make this Hamas-human-shields point, showing Palestinian missile trucks in some city... which then turned out to be old footage of Israeli trucks somewhere in Israel.

    • JoesFrackinJack [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Also would like to add they bombed important infrastructure related to electricity and water purification/desalination! and because they have a blockage these things cannot be fixed. causing a massive water scarcity and brown and blackouts, causing rotting food if they happen to have a refrigerator. it makes them even more dependent on humanitarian aid which Israel also is in complete control of (and does the bare minimum possible, sometimes less, causing malnutrition in some kids/people.)

      • WaterBear [they/them, comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Have you a map of the striken sites? The UN org map of the last one took a couple of month and I wasn't aware there currently is a sensible overview.

        • JoesFrackinJack [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          I have no, just going off what actual Palestinians have said in the past and other articles speaking on the food and water insecurities. There is bit more to it than just that though, even Netanyahu has spoken about putting Palestinians on a diet

    • VernetheJules [they/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Yeah just knowing how small the area is, where are they expected to "humanely" launch rockets from?

      • TheCaconym [any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        A big empty field with a target painted in bright red on it, most likely.

    • WaterBear [they/them, comrade/them]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      Qassams are a few dozen kilo in weight, have limited reach and explosive capacities and their range is determined by their fuel amount, its quality and the altitude from which they are started (also their quality in terms of aerodynamics).

      Fadschrs on the other hand weigh under a ton and have a reach of around 70kms, when used from higher places it can increase a bit too reach 80+km (eg Jerusalem). The speed is below 5km/s,so if you would be at the height of a four story building at 50m you would gain 3 seconds of flight (so at max 15km extra).

      Every meter higher they are fired from they fly much further. This means, yes, ever story helps the reach (and drastically reduces the chance for them to hit buildings in Gaza as - at least four qassams - the solid fuel is very dangerous and not seldom explodes to early or has the wrong mix and thus after starting falls close to the place they are fired from.

      To prepare 2000 (as were used within the last couple of days) on fields would mean Israeli intelligence would likely notice the preparations earlier and you would have smaller reach and would be exposed (cause outside Gaza proper the aren't cellars, nor would the IDF warn in some cases that they are going to strike. Which they do sometimes, but not always (eg when they declare a location to be a military Hamas base contrasted with a civilian complex used to fire rockets from OR when they fuck around / 'precision hit' neighbouring buildings instead their targets).