It's not exactly misleading if you don't know you are wrong yourself. There were a number of things which they got wrong early on, like the fomite thing. Fomites were big, until they found out they were not very important for spreading the virus at all.
It is misleading to spread the impression that "there's no reason to think masks work" for an extremely contagious respiratory virus a la SARS.
These people are not idiots. This is respiratory disease 101 and the obvious PSA to provide us "wear a mask until we know what's going on, ideally N95".
They were likely spreading this disinformation because of PPE shortages.
Because they don't have that power. They can only give public health guidance and do studies.
Feds were already buying up PPE / diverting it internationally from people who had already purchased it and were going with a denial strategy. Doctors and nurses were coming up with elaborate protocols for reusing PPE because they didn't have enough.
Because they don’t have that power. They can only give public health guidance and do studies.
They don't have the power to make it happen but they have the power to request it. And, like, there is no reason why it wouldn't be done if they couldn't do it any other way. Masks weren't the only thing they were wrong about early on.
They don’t have the power to make it happen but they have the power to request it.
I'm starting to think you're just pointlessly contrarian.
Your point is incorrect. They don't have the power to do what you want them to. They are clearly not gadflies against existing power structures either, so a public request cannot be expected. It would be absurd to assume there weren't internal requests for more PPE, that was official policy early on like I already mentioned.
Please stop playing armchair expert about topics you clearly do not understand.
And, like, there is no reason why it wouldn’t be done if they couldn’t do it any other way.
Why can't it do more like?
This is vague to the point of meaningless.
Masks weren’t the only thing they were wrong about early on.
That was the big one.
I see in your comment history talking about fomites as an example of this. Again, we're talking about preliminary public health guidance regarding an extremely contagious respiratory, the etiology of which was still being nailed down. Tentative caution is the obvious call. "Wash stuff until we know more" is 100% correct advice, not getting it wrong. "Who knows abouy masks they might not even work" is erring on the side of danger for, again, a highly contagious respiratory virus.
Your point is incorrect. They don’t have the power to do what you want them to. They are clearly not gadflies against existing power structures either, so a public request cannot be expected.
What does this have to do with anything, it's not some incredibly unrealistic request to ask for rationing of PPE.
It would be absurd to assume there weren’t internal requests for more PPE, that was official policy early on like I already mentioned.
Yes, there were, and as you said, they more or less followed through, so in the case where they were afraid there wouldn't be enough PPE for healthcare personnel, why would they not just say that and still do more or less the same thing they did regardless, plus expect some rationing? Rationing PPE so that healthcare personnel has enough isn't some power structure shattering request, neither is it unrealistic. If they were absolutely certain masks would help, there is no good reason why they wouldn't just say "we need lots of masks for everyone ASAP and rationing until that is feasible". Asking for lockdowns for months is much harder. The mask thing is nothing compared to that.
Like, I don't question that they were aware what they said may not have been correct, but I wouldn't assume they were certain of it, there doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to do that.
I don't think you understand just how many hundreds of thousands of worthless bureaucrats are employed in this shitty fucking country.
In order to state on the record that they need to reuse masks and perform rationing they would have to go on record as saying it's ok to sometimes violate all of their pointless removed redundant policies and it would completely undermine all faith in healthcare in America and hospital administration in general... which ended up happening anyway, obviously. But it would have caused a massive bureaucratic crisis and nobody knew how long this was going to go on for, at least at the time. Nobody wanted to be left holding the bag, and have been the one who over reacted and cost corporate hospital chains hundreds of billions of dollars.
Look at any jokes about the joint commission or JCAHO for examples.
They were boxed in and had to make a decision so they chose the absolute worst possible option. They waited as long as they possibly could, which of course just made everything worse.
It's been a real fucking trip to see all these people who are just now losing faith in the CDC. I was in Dallas for the ebola crisis and if the CDC had been in charge of that, which is to say, if we had waited for them to take leadership, we'd all be fucking dead right now. That organization...hell, this country, was gutted decades ago. There's nobody steering this ship.
There is no leadership, no governance, in American government. This sounds like doomposting but I'm completely serious.. The corporations have taken over. All is lost.
What does this have to do with anything, it’s not some incredibly unrealistic request to ask for rationing of PPE.
You're still confused about their role. One I already explained. Stop treating your imagination like it's a fact-generating machine.
This will likely be my last reply to you in this thread. I'm not interested in teasing apart terminal Redditor brain where making stuff up on the fly and deflection are considered the right way to have a disagreement.
Yes, there were, and as you said, they more or less followed through, so in the case where they were afraid there wouldn’t be enough PPE for healthcare personnel
To be clear, there wasn't enough and health officials were worried.
why would they not just say that
Because the capacity in which they're "saying" anything in this context is via public health announcements, not telling WaPo what the president should do.
You're getting very confused about who "they" are as if there's a coherent unit tasked with constructing healthcare policy and public health messaging. There is not.
Rationing PPE so that healthcare personnel has enough isn’t some power structure shattering request, neither is it unrealistic.
They don't have the power to institute that policy at all. It would all be internal. They instead used what power they do have: messaging.
If they were absolutely certain masks would help
That is obviously not a premise of our conversation and I have explained why twice.
Asking for lockdowns for months is much harder.
That was already a WHO recommendation and the US never actually recommended the real deal on lockdowns to begin with. The messaging there was watered down into "flatten the curve", remember?
Like, I don’t question that they were aware what they said may not have been correct, but I wouldn’t assume they were certain of it, there doesn’t seem to be a good enough reason to do that.
It was obvious FUD with the obvious contradiction, even from Fauci himself, that healthcare workers needed masks.
And it bred skepticism of public health authorities - who were absolutely misleading the public during a global pandemic.
It's not exactly misleading if you don't know you are wrong yourself. There were a number of things which they got wrong early on, like the fomite thing. Fomites were big, until they found out they were not very important for spreading the virus at all.
It is misleading to spread the impression that "there's no reason to think masks work" for an extremely contagious respiratory virus a la SARS.
These people are not idiots. This is respiratory disease 101 and the obvious PSA to provide us "wear a mask until we know what's going on, ideally N95".
They were likely spreading this disinformation because of PPE shortages.
Again, if they were spreading it because of PPE shortages, why couldn't they just say "we need to ration PPE" and leave it at that?
Because they don't have that power. They can only give public health guidance and do studies.
Feds were already buying up PPE / diverting it internationally from people who had already purchased it and were going with a denial strategy. Doctors and nurses were coming up with elaborate protocols for reusing PPE because they didn't have enough.
They don't have the power to make it happen but they have the power to request it. And, like, there is no reason why it wouldn't be done if they couldn't do it any other way. Masks weren't the only thing they were wrong about early on.
I'm starting to think you're just pointlessly contrarian.
Your point is incorrect. They don't have the power to do what you want them to. They are clearly not gadflies against existing power structures either, so a public request cannot be expected. It would be absurd to assume there weren't internal requests for more PPE, that was official policy early on like I already mentioned.
Please stop playing armchair expert about topics you clearly do not understand.
Why can't it do more like?
This is vague to the point of meaningless.
That was the big one.
I see in your comment history talking about fomites as an example of this. Again, we're talking about preliminary public health guidance regarding an extremely contagious respiratory, the etiology of which was still being nailed down. Tentative caution is the obvious call. "Wash stuff until we know more" is 100% correct advice, not getting it wrong. "Who knows abouy masks they might not even work" is erring on the side of danger for, again, a highly contagious respiratory virus.
What does this have to do with anything, it's not some incredibly unrealistic request to ask for rationing of PPE.
Yes, there were, and as you said, they more or less followed through, so in the case where they were afraid there wouldn't be enough PPE for healthcare personnel, why would they not just say that and still do more or less the same thing they did regardless, plus expect some rationing? Rationing PPE so that healthcare personnel has enough isn't some power structure shattering request, neither is it unrealistic. If they were absolutely certain masks would help, there is no good reason why they wouldn't just say "we need lots of masks for everyone ASAP and rationing until that is feasible". Asking for lockdowns for months is much harder. The mask thing is nothing compared to that.
Like, I don't question that they were aware what they said may not have been correct, but I wouldn't assume they were certain of it, there doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to do that.
I don't think you understand just how many hundreds of thousands of worthless bureaucrats are employed in this shitty fucking country.
In order to state on the record that they need to reuse masks and perform rationing they would have to go on record as saying it's ok to sometimes violate all of their pointless removed redundant policies and it would completely undermine all faith in healthcare in America and hospital administration in general... which ended up happening anyway, obviously. But it would have caused a massive bureaucratic crisis and nobody knew how long this was going to go on for, at least at the time. Nobody wanted to be left holding the bag, and have been the one who over reacted and cost corporate hospital chains hundreds of billions of dollars.
Look at any jokes about the joint commission or JCAHO for examples.
They were boxed in and had to make a decision so they chose the absolute worst possible option. They waited as long as they possibly could, which of course just made everything worse.
It's been a real fucking trip to see all these people who are just now losing faith in the CDC. I was in Dallas for the ebola crisis and if the CDC had been in charge of that, which is to say, if we had waited for them to take leadership, we'd all be fucking dead right now. That organization...hell, this country, was gutted decades ago. There's nobody steering this ship.
There is no leadership, no governance, in American government. This sounds like doomposting but I'm completely serious.. The corporations have taken over. All is lost.
You're still confused about their role. One I already explained. Stop treating your imagination like it's a fact-generating machine.
This will likely be my last reply to you in this thread. I'm not interested in teasing apart terminal Redditor brain where making stuff up on the fly and deflection are considered the right way to have a disagreement.
To be clear, there wasn't enough and health officials were worried.
Because the capacity in which they're "saying" anything in this context is via public health announcements, not telling WaPo what the president should do.
You're getting very confused about who "they" are as if there's a coherent unit tasked with constructing healthcare policy and public health messaging. There is not.
They don't have the power to institute that policy at all. It would all be internal. They instead used what power they do have: messaging.
That is obviously not a premise of our conversation and I have explained why twice.
That was already a WHO recommendation and the US never actually recommended the real deal on lockdowns to begin with. The messaging there was watered down into "flatten the curve", remember?
It was obvious FUD with the obvious contradiction, even from Fauci himself, that healthcare workers needed masks.