There's some dumb stuff in this piece, but I'm glad SOMEONE in Washington with influence is speaking out against the emerging consensus. Hooray for Succdem Grampa

:bernie:

  • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Imagine Bernie copy/pasted some Parenti and sent that in to Foreign Affairs. He’s a senator, he could get that opinion out there

    :doubt:

    • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      If a sitting U.S. senator who is also a recent presidential candidate and one of the most popular politicians in the country comes to Foreign Affairs and says "I want to submit an article that is going to drive a shitload of clicks to your magazine," they're going to print it. And while the editors in charge of the decision would be hostile to a Parenti-esque article on China, they're also hostile to Sanders, and would think that him publishing viewpoints that "extreme" would only hurt him.

      • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        The media won't even let Chomsky get 30 seconds on TV yet somehow Bernie will wake up enlightened one day and get a Parenti piece published. How is it lost on you that Parenti has written books about just this type of thing never being allowed to happen

        • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I'm not saying this is going to happen. It's a counterfactual to show how saying "you're wrong about absolutely everything on this topic" wouldn't work. And if it wouldn't work, how much is there to criticize?

          You may need to re-read those Parenti books, too. The emphasis is on ordinary journalists and editors -- people whose careers are threatened if they don't fit into a certain ideological mold. An incumbent senator is the definition of someone insulated from that type of threat. There's a reason the big push for Medicare for All came from Bernie, not from some talking head at MSNBC: it's easier to draw attention to issues outside of media orthodoxy if you have a position of state power.

          • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            It's not going to happen, it's a counterfactual

            it’s easier to draw attention to issues outside of media orthodoxy if you have a position of state power.

            This is just incoherent

              • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
                ·
                4 years ago

                It's not a counterfactual because you've basically admitted that Bernie is able to operate outside of the parameters set by media orthodoxy, which clearly isn't the case, and which is what you were arguing against to begin with

                • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  OK, so you really don't understand what a counterfactual is.

                  A counterfactual isn't a scenario that's impossible -- it's a thought experiment along the lines of "what if we had made some other choice?" It's a vehicle for thinking through the implications of that other choice and assessing whether it would have been a good one. If someone started working right after high school, they might think about the counterfactual of "what if I had gone to college?" That's a choice they could have made, but didn't. They think through what might have happened had they gone to college and assess whether they made a good choice.

                  Bernie could have sent Foreign Affairs some Parenti-esque article, but he didn't. My original comment was thinking through what would have happened had he sent in that type of article. It's not a question of whether he could have got that message out there or not -- he obviously could have -- it's a question of whether doing so would have been more effective than his actual article.

                  • Mrtryfe [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    It’s not a counterfactual because you’ve basically admitted that Bernie is able to operate outside of the parameters set by media orthodoxy