"which is not true, but it’s a popular thing to paint longstanding anarchist projects around here for example as ML’s since they couldn’t be longstanding if they were anarchists, which in itself is sectarian bullshit"
Can you clarify? My first instinct is that you're talking about the Zapatistas, who I know aren't ML, but who have explicitly stated they aren't anarchists either.
Are you talking about something else? I'm just at a loss because most ML orgs are pretty explicit about their ideology?
Most of the time with the Zapatistas and Rojava, which are the two generally "libcom" projects that are pointed to, the criticisms I see is less "Oh they are actually ML" and more just pointing to either the relatively small scale and less hostility the Zapatistas have faced(not that they have faced no hostility mind you) or pointing to the collaboration between Rojava and the US as an argument for why these are unique cases and not inherently "proof" that Anarchism is as/more effective than ML(not trying to start this argument or being sectarian, just explaining what people argue).
Well I think that that's a totally different argument.
The OP didn't say that MLs made arguments that non-ML projects like the Zapatistas and Rojava weren't sustainable, they said that MLs regularly claim that "anarchist" (not just non ML) projects were ML projects.
I'm new to Hexbear, and mostly just went over to genzedong after MTC got banned, so maybe this behavior has been common here specifically, but on MTC or genzedong, they'd probably call you a lib if you started calling Rojava a ML project.
Yeah I have pretty much never heard an ML claim that Rojava is actually ML, I have no idea where that comes from but I have definitely not seen it here.
Brace Belden from Trueanon (and is a ML) who toured with YPG for 6 months said in his Chapo interview that they basically run like a Stalinist state.
EDIT: There were also mentions of crit and self crit sessions and what not. Plus I am not sure how useful these discussions are based on labels. Cuba certainly doesn't run exactly like the Soviet Union (neither did China). For instance did you know Che looked at US corporations for inspiration on how to structure the economy? These countries look at what everything everyone tried and figure out what works for them. To me that is the true commie way (it is 'scientific socialism' and not the 'religion of socialism' after all). Not blind adherence to ideas but an honest attempt at trying and finding better models.
That is something he has been saying in recent episodes afaik (in very early ones there is a question on some True and A epsiode on why Brace and Liz are MLs). Plus Mao builds on ML stuff so there is no contradiction here.
I've definitely seen arguments basically saying there's not as much difference between ML and what Rojava is doing as its more vocal adherents claim, but yeah most of the time the close bond between Rojava and US imperialism means MLs dont usually care much for it in my experience.
"which is not true, but it’s a popular thing to paint longstanding anarchist projects around here for example as ML’s since they couldn’t be longstanding if they were anarchists, which in itself is sectarian bullshit"
Can you clarify? My first instinct is that you're talking about the Zapatistas, who I know aren't ML, but who have explicitly stated they aren't anarchists either.
Are you talking about something else? I'm just at a loss because most ML orgs are pretty explicit about their ideology?
Most of the time with the Zapatistas and Rojava, which are the two generally "libcom" projects that are pointed to, the criticisms I see is less "Oh they are actually ML" and more just pointing to either the relatively small scale and less hostility the Zapatistas have faced(not that they have faced no hostility mind you) or pointing to the collaboration between Rojava and the US as an argument for why these are unique cases and not inherently "proof" that Anarchism is as/more effective than ML(not trying to start this argument or being sectarian, just explaining what people argue).
Well I think that that's a totally different argument.
The OP didn't say that MLs made arguments that non-ML projects like the Zapatistas and Rojava weren't sustainable, they said that MLs regularly claim that "anarchist" (not just non ML) projects were ML projects.
I'm new to Hexbear, and mostly just went over to genzedong after MTC got banned, so maybe this behavior has been common here specifically, but on MTC or genzedong, they'd probably call you a lib if you started calling Rojava a ML project.
Yeah I have pretty much never heard an ML claim that Rojava is actually ML, I have no idea where that comes from but I have definitely not seen it here.
I've read multiple times about Rojava on this site that they're "ML in all but name"
I've literally never seen an ML claim that about Rojava. Most don't even support Rojava due to their ties with the US military.
Brace Belden from Trueanon (and is a ML) who toured with YPG for 6 months said in his Chapo interview that they basically run like a Stalinist state.
EDIT: There were also mentions of crit and self crit sessions and what not. Plus I am not sure how useful these discussions are based on labels. Cuba certainly doesn't run exactly like the Soviet Union (neither did China). For instance did you know Che looked at US corporations for inspiration on how to structure the economy? These countries look at what everything everyone tried and figure out what works for them. To me that is the true commie way (it is 'scientific socialism' and not the 'religion of socialism' after all). Not blind adherence to ideas but an honest attempt at trying and finding better models.
Brace is a Maoist, I'm pretty sure.
That is something he has been saying in recent episodes afaik (in very early ones there is a question on some True and A epsiode on why Brace and Liz are MLs). Plus Mao builds on ML stuff so there is no contradiction here.
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I've definitely seen arguments basically saying there's not as much difference between ML and what Rojava is doing as its more vocal adherents claim, but yeah most of the time the close bond between Rojava and US imperialism means MLs dont usually care much for it in my experience.