Isn't it amazing that the US losing a war against the Taliban is considered a victory for Biden, because he's pulling the troops out. Just like in Vietnam, they pillage, murder and rape a country for a few years and then leave when they lose and call it a victory
Like, it depends on your goals, right? Private industry surrounding the Iraq/Afghanistan occupation successfully pilfered trillions of dollars of wealth from the American public, galvanized public opinion to capital's benefit for two decades running, and dramatically expanded the scale of the MIC both at home and abroad.
We didn't find and defeat the Final Boss of either country or install a permanent neoliberal loyalist regime from which we could expand our empire into Iran or Xinjiang. So it was an international geopolitical defeat.
But from a domestic perspective, how many careers have been made running on some kind of hawkish platform or by reneging on a "moderate" dovish platform? And from an economic perspective, it was like winning the lottery every day for twenty years.
Well the strategic goal I guess is a win initially, but the insurgencies have soundly won in the long run. However I wouldn't say a permanent neoliberal regime would be the measure of a win, the strategic objective was regime change and securing the natural resources, the latter of which we have not really succeeded at 20 years later. Not expanding into Iran is not a geopolitical defeat, but we still did lose cause we fail to hold our objectives
However I wouldn’t say a permanent neoliberal regime would be the measure of a win, the strategic objective was regime change and securing the natural resources, the latter of which we have not really succeeded at 20 years later.
Taking Iraqi oil off the market for 20 years, while the US becomes a major exporter, has been a solid consolation prize.
Not expanding into Iran is not a geopolitical defeat, but we still did lose cause we fail to hold our objectives
The folks that came out of the Bush Admin were greatly enriched, the staffers all went on to higher office or had children who climbed the ladder behind them, and - particularly after Trump - they're all remembered fondly.
How was this not a huge win for everybody involved?
Yes they won, but the US military did not. There is a difference between people lining their pockets, and militarily winning. Like the Nazis become entrenched in the western intelligence and got to do much of what they wanted, but that doesn't mean they won WW2
Guys like Tom Cotton and Dan Crenshaw leveraged military service into political careers. Others transitioned to private security, be it Blackwater or the local PD, or took their GI money to college.
The top brass have all landed on short lists for civilian admin posts - Lloyd Austin heading up the Pentagon, Kelly as Trump's chief of staff - or cushy board positions - Mad Dog Mathis at Theranos, for instance.
Contractors banked. Civilian support staff banked. The MIC banked. Which American military folks walked out of Iraq worse off?
Like the Nazis become entrenched in the western intelligence and got to do much of what they wanted, but that doesn’t mean they won WW2
The Nazis were running Western Germany and the UN, by the 1960s. They were gobbled up by Operation Paperclip and resupplied/reinforced under Operation Gladio. The ratlines to South America gave them an entire continent to conquer. They had won the Cold War by the 1990s and begun re-colonizing Africa at the turn of the 21st century.
Yeah but that's not the same thing as winning the war. People leveraged Vietnam to get elected, profiteers still made off. But that doesn't mean the US won that war. Confederates secured their legacy and the Klan got them their concessions back but the Civil War was still won by the Union.
Continuing on past a war and getting a lot of what you want in the long run is not winning a war. The Nazis failed to take the Soviets, their primary objective, that's a loss for them. Surviving does not mean you won
Isn't it amazing that the US losing a war against the Taliban is considered a victory for Biden, because he's pulling the troops out. Just like in Vietnam, they pillage, murder and rape a country for a few years and then leave when they lose and call it a victory
Has the U.S. even won a war since WW2?
Idk Grenada, Panama, or the Gulf War? All of which barely count as wars and the later we had insane amounts of help and still botched in the long run
Like, it depends on your goals, right? Private industry surrounding the Iraq/Afghanistan occupation successfully pilfered trillions of dollars of wealth from the American public, galvanized public opinion to capital's benefit for two decades running, and dramatically expanded the scale of the MIC both at home and abroad.
We didn't find and defeat the Final Boss of either country or install a permanent neoliberal loyalist regime from which we could expand our empire into Iran or Xinjiang. So it was an international geopolitical defeat.
But from a domestic perspective, how many careers have been made running on some kind of hawkish platform or by reneging on a "moderate" dovish platform? And from an economic perspective, it was like winning the lottery every day for twenty years.
Well the strategic goal I guess is a win initially, but the insurgencies have soundly won in the long run. However I wouldn't say a permanent neoliberal regime would be the measure of a win, the strategic objective was regime change and securing the natural resources, the latter of which we have not really succeeded at 20 years later. Not expanding into Iran is not a geopolitical defeat, but we still did lose cause we fail to hold our objectives
Taking Iraqi oil off the market for 20 years, while the US becomes a major exporter, has been a solid consolation prize.
The folks that came out of the Bush Admin were greatly enriched, the staffers all went on to higher office or had children who climbed the ladder behind them, and - particularly after Trump - they're all remembered fondly.
How was this not a huge win for everybody involved?
Yes they won, but the US military did not. There is a difference between people lining their pockets, and militarily winning. Like the Nazis become entrenched in the western intelligence and got to do much of what they wanted, but that doesn't mean they won WW2
Guys like Tom Cotton and Dan Crenshaw leveraged military service into political careers. Others transitioned to private security, be it Blackwater or the local PD, or took their GI money to college.
The top brass have all landed on short lists for civilian admin posts - Lloyd Austin heading up the Pentagon, Kelly as Trump's chief of staff - or cushy board positions - Mad Dog Mathis at Theranos, for instance.
Contractors banked. Civilian support staff banked. The MIC banked. Which American military folks walked out of Iraq worse off?
The Nazis were running Western Germany and the UN, by the 1960s. They were gobbled up by Operation Paperclip and resupplied/reinforced under Operation Gladio. The ratlines to South America gave them an entire continent to conquer. They had won the Cold War by the 1990s and begun re-colonizing Africa at the turn of the 21st century.
Yeah but that's not the same thing as winning the war. People leveraged Vietnam to get elected, profiteers still made off. But that doesn't mean the US won that war. Confederates secured their legacy and the Klan got them their concessions back but the Civil War was still won by the Union.
Continuing on past a war and getting a lot of what you want in the long run is not winning a war. The Nazis failed to take the Soviets, their primary objective, that's a loss for them. Surviving does not mean you won
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Two decades.
Time is relative or something, idk I couldn't remember if it was the war in Afghanistan or Iraq that was 20 years old
Both wars are old enough to start HRT