It makes sense to push back on a prominent person with bad ideas, but I think the best way to do that on this point is to avoid the whole "here's what Lenin really meant" argument altogether. There's no reason to get into it -- as @DetroitLolcat put it elsewhere in this thread, if someone has a good argument for doing X or Y, they should just make that argument on its own merits.
Except this point is specifically about a stupid thing Vaush said about Lenin specifically. This point IS the specific one to get into semantics on when otherwise we shouldnt
But what are we trying to do here? Are we trying to find out who knows their Lenin best, or are we trying to build some sort of mass leftist movement? That "Lenin said XYZ" isn't even convincing to people who love Lenin is a sign that appealing to Lenin is not very productive.
We are not trying to do_ anything, we are in the memes community making fun of Vaush. This is not a freaking grand strategy session, this is not the 4th international; we are in a thread about Vaush being a dipshit and misquoting theory. That is what we are doing. This is a fucking meme thread about Vaush and Lenin quotes, it has fuck all to do with "build some sort of mass leftist movement" jesus christ!!! In the context of a dumbass claiming to know theory and then lying about what Lenin said, what Lenin actually said is far more important than your broad ideas about movement building.
Also gonna go out of a limb and say vaush and his friends are not people who love Lenin in the first place. and also shut up about what is "productive" it IS.A.MEME.THREAD about a specific thing vaush said. You just steered a conversation into a broad strategy discussion no one was having.
"what are we trying to do here?" who is "we"? I am making fun of vaush specifically pretending to use theory to justify something, despite not reading theory. I don't care about whether or not Lenin quotations are an effective electoral strategy for movement building in your opinion, this is a meme thread about a specific thing.
Not everything is an invitation for a struggle session about your opinions on why every other leftist is wrong about elections.
:grillman:
It makes sense to push back on a prominent person with bad ideas, but I think the best way to do that on this point is to avoid the whole "here's what Lenin really meant" argument altogether. There's no reason to get into it -- as @DetroitLolcat put it elsewhere in this thread, if someone has a good argument for doing X or Y, they should just make that argument on its own merits.
Except this point is specifically about a stupid thing Vaush said about Lenin specifically. This point IS the specific one to get into semantics on when otherwise we shouldnt
But what are we trying to do here? Are we trying to find out who knows their Lenin best, or are we trying to build some sort of mass leftist movement? That "Lenin said XYZ" isn't even convincing to people who love Lenin is a sign that appealing to Lenin is not very productive.
We are not trying to do_ anything, we are in the memes community making fun of Vaush. This is not a freaking grand strategy session, this is not the 4th international; we are in a thread about Vaush being a dipshit and misquoting theory. That is what we are doing. This is a fucking meme thread about Vaush and Lenin quotes, it has fuck all to do with "build some sort of mass leftist movement" jesus christ!!! In the context of a dumbass claiming to know theory and then lying about what Lenin said, what Lenin actually said is far more important than your broad ideas about movement building.
Also gonna go out of a limb and say vaush and his friends are not people who love Lenin in the first place. and also shut up about what is "productive" it IS.A.MEME.THREAD about a specific thing vaush said. You just steered a conversation into a broad strategy discussion no one was having.
"what are we trying to do here?" who is "we"? I am making fun of vaush specifically pretending to use theory to justify something, despite not reading theory. I don't care about whether or not Lenin quotations are an effective electoral strategy for movement building in your opinion, this is a meme thread about a specific thing.
Not everything is an invitation for a struggle session about your opinions on why every other leftist is wrong about elections. :grillman: