I agree with the systemic analysis but have 1 nitpick and then a slightly different framing overall
these ‘certain vegans’ argue against cultured meat for nebulous reasons
The argument that I’ve heard isn’t nebulous at all. The production of these meats still involves raising animals for taste testing. So they’re not really vegan and that point at which they become vegan is kind of a ship of theseus thing.
And then framing-wise, I think there’s a tendency for some vegans to hear this sort of systemic analysis and add an implied “so therefore I can still kill animals without feeling bad”. And the reason they hear that is because that’s the way this argument is used against them all the time. You get enough reactionaries asking you “you think you’re better than me?” and eventually the temptation will be to answer “sure fuck it yes I am”.
I don’t think that’s what you’re doing here. Just trying to describe a pattern I see in vegan discourse.
for the purpose of the current tech, they use feathers that fall off a chicken. for other animals, they usually do blood draws. so yes, it will still require animals in captivity, but if people are gonna get butthurt over picking some feathers up while otherwise treating the animals very well, there's nothing to be done. one feather can make quite a lot of food too. and it will still be necessary to keep certain animals in captivity for conventional farming purposes.
No, we must take these animals bred for thousands of years to live in captivity and set them free. Domestic animals belong in the wild, where they will definitely live long happy lives and are definitely able to take care of themselves.
Oh I’m not talking about the source of the cultured meat. I’m talking about the source of the meat used in the taste test. It’s more similar to not using makeup tested on animals
im not quite following, are you saying they go and kill the animal to figure out how it tastes? the whole cultured meat thing arose out of research to reproduce organs and cells so we dont have to test products and pharmaceuticals on animals. plus its more convenient for the researchers, the idea is that by having the cells made in lab you can remove a lot of external factors.
You get enough reactionaries asking you “you think you’re better than me?” and eventually the temptation will be to answer “sure fuck it yes I am”.
Well, that's what veganism is, isn't it? People who are morally better than others.
If they could just lead by example and shut up about it, they'd be a lot more effective. But no, they have to tell everyone how superior they are, and in a (supposedly) egalitarian society that's going to rile a lot of people up, even people who would usually be on your side.
To be be fair to people who do a thing to be morally better are better than people who just as easily could but don't, then stubbornly defend that inaction on grounds of 'youre sanctimonious'
I agree with the systemic analysis but have 1 nitpick and then a slightly different framing overall
The argument that I’ve heard isn’t nebulous at all. The production of these meats still involves raising animals for taste testing. So they’re not really vegan and that point at which they become vegan is kind of a ship of theseus thing.
And then framing-wise, I think there’s a tendency for some vegans to hear this sort of systemic analysis and add an implied “so therefore I can still kill animals without feeling bad”. And the reason they hear that is because that’s the way this argument is used against them all the time. You get enough reactionaries asking you “you think you’re better than me?” and eventually the temptation will be to answer “sure fuck it yes I am”.
I don’t think that’s what you’re doing here. Just trying to describe a pattern I see in vegan discourse.
for the purpose of the current tech, they use feathers that fall off a chicken. for other animals, they usually do blood draws. so yes, it will still require animals in captivity, but if people are gonna get butthurt over picking some feathers up while otherwise treating the animals very well, there's nothing to be done. one feather can make quite a lot of food too. and it will still be necessary to keep certain animals in captivity for conventional farming purposes.
No, we must take these animals bred for thousands of years to live in captivity and set them free. Domestic animals belong in the wild, where they will definitely live long happy lives and are definitely able to take care of themselves.
Oh I’m not talking about the source of the cultured meat. I’m talking about the source of the meat used in the taste test. It’s more similar to not using makeup tested on animals
im not quite following, are you saying they go and kill the animal to figure out how it tastes? the whole cultured meat thing arose out of research to reproduce organs and cells so we dont have to test products and pharmaceuticals on animals. plus its more convenient for the researchers, the idea is that by having the cells made in lab you can remove a lot of external factors.
Oh I see. I’m talking about commercially available versions of this. Maybe I’ve mixed up two kinds of meat alternative, in which case I’m sorry
Well, that's what veganism is, isn't it? People who are morally better than others.
If they could just lead by example and shut up about it, they'd be a lot more effective. But no, they have to tell everyone how superior they are, and in a (supposedly) egalitarian society that's going to rile a lot of people up, even people who would usually be on your side.
lol no
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There’s a difference between doing morally preferable things and being smug and performative about it, so no
To be be fair to people who do a thing to be morally better are better than people who just as easily could but don't, then stubbornly defend that inaction on grounds of 'youre sanctimonious'