Nothing frustrates me more than not being able to pause for no seemingly good reason. I'm playing Wild Hearts right now and even though I never play online I cannot pause for some reason. To simulate pausing, I can turn off the xbox and the quick resume feature makes it look like the game was paused when I turn the console back on.
Other games guilty of this are Fromsoft games: Dark Souls, Elden Ring and so on.
Obviously all of these games have an online component. Not allowing pausing when this component is activated makes sense. But if I am playing completely online why cannot I pause? In Soulslike the worst exploit I can think of is switching equipment on the fly but is that really that bad? When stuff comes up in the middle crucial moments it frustrates me a lot.
I don't play games that don't have a pause button. I'm an adult with adult shit to deal with. That might be as simple as cooking dinner. I don't have long for leisure in the evenings but if I can pause a game in between e.g. cooking, I can play it. If I can't pause, I can't play.
If devs want to say 'fuck you, user, we aren't making our game accessible,' then fuck them, too. Just another symbol of the shit hole that is game development. I don't really care what their justifications are. Online games could be made with a pause button as well if the devs cared about accessibility. It's an industry that takes itself far too seriously, as if games aren't supposed to be a bit of fun. That's what happens when games are commodities, I guess.
It's another factor in gamers being so reactionary; so much of it is de facto the reserve of people without responsibilities or people who don't care about their responsibilities. Down with inaccessible games.
In Soulslike the worst exploit I can think of is switching equipment on the fly but is that really that bad
in that case they can implement a pause screen that's only a pause screen, not allowing the user to do anything but unpause 😐
it's understandable if you're using a game engine that doesn't support it (e.g. your own engine), but I can't think of it as anything other than a design flaw
The basic feature required is to support multiple game states, there's no reason not to have that apart from incompetence.
I'm pretty certain that the Prepare To Die edition of DS1 had seperate pause and inventory buttons, so I don't see why other games wouldn't be able to do it.
Someone elsewhere mentioned that at least one of the games has a mod to add it in, so I must have used that.
in Minecraft
But comrade... MINECRAFT is one of those games that doesn't have pausing...! 😨 (In Bedrock anyway, Java Edition is thankfully safe)
Bedrock is the epitome of Microsoft coming in to ruin shit for everybody
More often than not is a design choice. Dark Souls does it to increase tension: you can't pause to consider your options, you have to do it, and do it fast. It gives an even greater importance to your quick item slots since rummaging through your inventory for an item, while possible, can be cumbersome and kill you.
counterpoint: not being able to pause creates tension and puts pressure on the player. that wii U zombie game didn't pause while you were digging around in your inventory and that game would be way less interesting if it did. i probably wouldn't even remember it exists.
if you don't like that tension and pressure that's fine but there's no shortage of games that don't restrict you like that and no-pause is a legitimate design tool.
If there was a pause button and you wanted the tension, all you would have to do is simply not press pause.
Whether not having a pause is justified or not, you surely must know this isn't a good response, right? "Just play wildly suboptimally for dramatic effect" is not viable game design.
So not building in a pause button automatically makes gameplay wildly suboptimal?
Optimization only happens within constraints. How the game is built represents the constraints.
But in a game where you can pause, making a rule of not pausing would put you at a drastically lower "power level" than someone who pauses.
I'm afraid you've moved the goalposts or something. I don't really care about optimization. Games should be accessible. Not having a pause button means I can't play the game at all. Optimization doesn't come into it. The person I responded to argued that having a pause button makes games less tense. I understand that because being able to pause the game gives the player a breather. But just because there's a pause button doesn't mean the player has to press it. If they want the tension, they can simply choose not to press it. It's not up to me, the end user, to solve the problem beyond demanding accessibility.
That's not tension, that's edging. You can complain about it all you like, but fundamentally you're ignoring the design issue here when it looks like the real answer is that it just isn't for you. The issue of accessibility is difficult because -- however much some advocates like to frame it in an abstract, deductive fashion about tailoring one's experience -- the reality of a lot of the "inaccessible" elements of games is that players, when given the opportunity, have a high propensity to "optimize the fun out of the game," i.e. to do what is less fun because it is simply better strategically for the goal of "winning the game," which is typically something you kind of gravitate towards when you play a game. There are some design features that are just bullshit and should be gotten rid of, like "mash the x button to escape" or whatever (and I think some Souls grabs actually have that and I won't defend that shit), but many of the practices that have survived to this day have reasons beyond inertia and gatekeeping for their existence, and calling for their removal with no interest in either what those reasons might be or what could be a genuine replacement is just masturbation.
On the plus side, you can pause Sekiro, so maybe you can give that one a shot. "Doesn't that demonstrate that you should be able to pause in all of them?" Probably, yeah, at least if you're in "offline mode".
a self-imposed limitation is not at all the same as an external restriction.
It's either a self imposed limitation for some users and inclusivity by default, or a design-imposed limitation and exclusivity by default. Considering I spend so much of my time arguing and fighting against against exclusion and for inclusion in every other part of life, I see no reason why games shouldn't get the same treatment.
I see no reason why games shouldn't get the same treatment.
tests of skill and ability are inherently ableist. There are plenty of games that allow pausing, they're the majority, even. Let people have some that don't for artistic or ludic purposes.
I find hero shooters visually overstimulating and can't play them. I could try to get those to stop being made or i can go play any of the thousands of other games that aren't like that and let people who want and like them to have their fun too. I don't like visual design of anime fighters, but there are plenty of fighters that aren't like that i can go play. I don't like to keep playing a game when i know i lost for 25 minutes because it's depression triggering but other people like league of dota for some reason.
I and people who need to pause at all times are not under-served minorities.
tests of skill and ability are inherently ableist. There are plenty of games that allow pausing, they’re the majority, even. Let people have some that don’t for artistic or ludic purposes.
"Let us have a little ableism, as a treat."
The thing is, it doesn't need to be either/or.
I could try to get those to stop being made or i can go play any of the thousands of other games that aren’t like that
Or devs could do the same thing they've been doing for decades with difficulty levels. Before the start of a game, let users choose the difficulty levels and that could include whether or not they can pause the game. Users who wish to can then pause. This can be locked into the entirety of that playthrough. Problem solved.
Games almost never have to actually choose between ableism and the dev's vision for difficulty or pacing or whatever the fuck. Just give people the option. Hell, it would encourage people like me who struggle with difficult games to experience the game the way I am able, then try it again with higher difficulty (without being able to pause) rather than simply never being able to experience the game in the first place.
Given the reasons you listed why you can't play certain games, wouldn't you appreciate it if devs made the game in such a way where you could still choose to play it in the way you can, and let others play it as is? Obviously this isn't possible in all cases, and some while possible might require such a huge revamp of the game that it would effectively be a different game. This is not the case for simply being able to pause the game.
This isn't a lot to ask of devs for large masses of people who live lives where they will have to step away from a game without notice but would also like to not be punished by the game for doing so or outright unable to play it because of that life.
i have enough games to play, i'm not put out by design features i don't like or render a minority of games inaccessible to me.
a fuckload of books and movies don't hold my attention, should everything be re-edited to suit my neurology?
you can't have challenges for everyone without being somewhat exclusionary some of the time, and that's fine as long as it's optional recreation and there's a wealth of other equivalent things we can do for fun.
the large masses of people who have to be able to pause at the drop of a hat are the default. offline singleplayer with no pausing is a rare aberration. You might as well ask for the spiciest food to cease to exist, to accommodate normal people, as though the vast majority of food is not spicy at all.
You sound like one of those chud gamers who thinks making games more inclusive for other people detracts from the purity of the game. It's ablebist bullshit.
a fuckload of books and movies don’t hold my attention, should everything be re-edited to suit my neurology?
"There's a fuckload of places around the city that are wheelchair-accessible, should every public building be re-engineered to suit me just because I'm in a wheelchair?" A book or movie "not holding your attention" is a completely different thing than if a book or a movie didn't allow you to set it down or walk away from it. If a movie forced the people who wanted to watch it to do so entirely on the terms of the producer, like say, not letting people fast-forward through a scene with intense flashing lights, then yes, that's ableist and that movie should be criticized for being ableist and a version of it should be made so people with epilepsy could watch it.
You might as well ask for the spiciest food to cease to exist, to accommodate normal people, as though the vast majority of food is not spicy at all.
This is such a bullshit analogy that totally misrepresents what we're saying. ("We" being those of us who think games should not be ableist). We're not asking for spicy food to "not exist" in that we're not asking for your precious games who don't want people to be able to pause them to "not exist." They can exist just fine, as I described above, it doesn't have to be either/or, so you should stop pretending like it does. Just as a spicy food dish and a mild version of it can exist simultaneously. In fact it's funny that you'd even use that as an analogy since every restaurant I've ever been to gives its customers the option to order a hot or mild version of whatever spicy dishes it has on the menu.
We're not asking for spicy food to "not exist" in that we're not asking for your precious games who don't want people to be able to pause them to "not exist." They can exist just fine,
people are literally in here complaining about games that don't allow pausing, saying that they should all allow it with no exceptions regardless of artistic intent or ludic effect.
this thread would not have happened if "they can exist just fine" was the premise.
ableism is inherent to challenging participants on the basis of ability. a challenge for some will be impossible for others, and some people will be unable no matter how easy the easy mode is or how low you put the basketball hoop. We have to reckon with that, inventing wheelchair basketball, or having a lower hoop for kids, or games that have no time pressure, but we don't get rid of the NBA because I can't dunk and we shouldn't force every game to have pausing just because somebody might need to walk away.
I think my favourite implementation is Dead Space. All the inventory and map are diegetic and the world doesn't pause to use them but the game does still have a pause function. Best of both worlds I think.
Uhh you shouldn't have mentioned a fromsoft game. How many skeletons do you have telling you that not having pause is actually cool and great? Lol you're not allowed to not like anything a souls game does online. I mean you can try not to like it, but hoooooo boy are you gonna hear about it.
Btw i think there might be a pause mod for one of the souls games on Nexusmods, have a look!
Souls games just aren't for me. I keep trying them (Demon Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and Elden RIng so far), and I keep absolutely hating them, more than most anything I have played. There's a myriad of specific reasons I could give, but they simply weren't made for me and that's fine. I have come to terms with the fact that I will never like a From Software game, assuming no significant design philosophy changes.
Interestingly, I have had no issues having that opinion on Lemmy. When I mentioned it back in the Reddit Days, I would usually be downvoted/lambasted with people telling me to just "git gud and I would enjoy it" or the ever-popular "you aren't a real gamer". Or THIS one would make me change my mind.
Haha! I feel you. I dont get when people put so much of their egos into a hobby where they feel the need to police their fellow hobbyists. Its an old and tiring tale, but one that never ends.
For myself, the souls games tickle my exploration and co-op bug, the former especially in DS1s map. However fromsoft does some dumb crap too, and things i simply don't enjoy. i understand the allure but personally have never enjoyed playing video games with strangers and despite many, many messages telling me the reason they think I'm wrong and dumb, that will never change
Sekiro and Elden Ring are my favourite games of all time. Not being able to pause is one of my few issues with them.
god this gives me flashbacks to a few weeks after elden ring released when I got downvoted into the negative triple digits for daring to criticize the game in r/eldenring lol
Btw i think there might be a pause mod for one of the souls games on Nexusmods, have a look!
I tried one for Elden Ring. It basically freezes everyone (including you, but you can still control the camera) and everything in one place, so I guess it's technically a pause.
Interesting! I only play elden co-op so Im really loving the seamless mod. Hard to believe i put up with the vanilla way for so long!
I’m playing Wild Hearts right now and even though I never play online I cannot pause for some reason.
Funny to see this happen in a Monster Hunter-like. The recent Monster Hunter game (MHRise) allows you to pause in "offline mode"/singleplayer.
As always, the OG Monster Hunter keeps winning 🫡 🫡
Probably has more to do with the primary target platform being the Switch. I don't think Monster Hunter World allows for pausing, for example.
MHWorld doesn't, but neither does MHRise if you have multiple players ingame.
I don't see a correlation between allowing pausing just because MHR's primary target is switch. I wonder if Monster Hunter 6 (aka MHWilds) will allow pausing in Singleplayer too. (It should, it would be stupid not to after they implemented it in the spin-off game)
The PSP and 3DS titles also had pause. Pause is more likely to be a key feature on "handheld" games since you're more likely to play in "bursts," and the Switch is a handheld" system.
Moreover, as I understand it there are two Monster Hunter dev teams - a primary team that works on the the "mainline" (previously numbered) games that tended to target console, and a secondary "handheld" team that would handle the handheld spinoffs and ports. Rise was developed by the secondary "handheld" team, World and Wilds are being developed by the primary "console" team.
That being said, I'm with you - I like to be able to pause while on a long hunt to go get a drink or take a quick break.
Well it is hidden in the game menu. You gotta press start to bring it up, go to the settings(?) tab and there you'll find the option to Pause Game.
I think you can also only do this when you're out hunting too. Makes sense because there's not much that goes on in the Village/Gathering Hub.
There's also no real reason to pause for inventory purposes in most MH games due to the way the menu and item swap works. Those games are designed to not need to be paused for that stuff. Or at least, not need it as badly. The pause feature is pretty much entirely for a "I have to step away for a moment" scenario, which is still great they put it in there.
I agree, and even in online games if I am playing in a solo context I should be able to pause. That should be a benefit to playing solo, by design. As an example, if I am playing Warframe in a non-public solo game, I should be able to pause.
The souls games are a pretty egregious example as they are, by and large, solo experiences first. I understand there are online elements, though I do not think I got far enough in any of them to even see those elements. Plenty of people do not engage with those elements, and a benefit to that should be the ability to pause something.I would argue it should also be a feature in multiplayer games where it makes sense. Starcraft is a great example. The solo campaign obviously allows pausing, but so does online competitive play.
I accept that something like a MMO isn't going to allow you to pause, but there's not much that can be done about that. Unless you are engaged in dedicated group content, you can still usually pretty reasonably afk in those games honestly.
I have a friend whose first question when I suggest a game to him is "can I pause it?". He just became a father and while he still enjoys playing games, he isn't going to play anything that he can not pause when his child suddenly needs attention.
Yeah, all they would need to really do is unqueue you when you pause and disable pausing while someone is trying to connect. These are functions that already exist in these games, so there should be effort put into making a pause button.
I think it is only this way in Dark Souls because Demon's Souls was very messy and allowed for multiplayer to start even during one specific boss battle. So to keep the whole thing seamless (considering how otherwise janky the game was) they just went with "no pause" and it somehow became a tradition. Sekiro which is offline-only has a pause button AFAIK and you can "pause" Bloodborne by pressing the home button.
I'm not sure if there is ever a design benefit to not allowing pausing, it's mostly from technical difficulties. Monster Hunter is identical to Dark Souls and always had a pause button since at least the Wii version.
you would be surprised how hard a pause feature can be to implement.
It kinda just makes it difficult to for example answer the doorbell. As others have suggested there could be a paused state that is only available when offline forbids changing equipment.
It's not necessarily because it makes them harder that it's a good choice, it's because it makes the challenges more certain/unavoidable/unrelenting. Each encounter has a specific pace that can't be interrupted for you to wrap your head around it and come up with strategies or whatever. You've just gotta take it as it comes.
It works well because there are plenty of safe areas where the game may as well be paused anyway. And 99% of the time no new enemies are going to arrive once you've killed the ones around you so if you're not in combat it's, again, effectively paused anyway.
Sekiro pauses when you're in its menus, and that didn't make the game any easier. I think Souls games usually disable pausing because pausing the game would break the multiplayer system!
Other games guilty of this are Fromsoft games: Dark Souls, Elden Ring and so on.
I missed this part. A workaround this could be exiting to the main menu when you gotta go afk, as the game will resume where you left it off with enemies dead and all (if you killed them).
Granted, this technique is useless against Boss Fights, where it'll kick you out of the boss fight and make you do it all over again, so...
Granted, this technique is useless against Boss Fights
It's still useful if you want to keep your souls
I guess, but why would you enter a boss fight while having a lot of souls [that you may need] anyway?
What's the point of pause function if you can just hit Escape and the game will remained paused that way, while showing you menu.
I'm not sure what you mean. Pressing escape in Wild Hearts and Elden Ring shows the menu but doesn't pause the game which is what I am complaining about.
If you are talking about having a distinction between the state where the menu is visible vs the state where the game is paused, having them separate and mutually exclusive in Souls games is desirable because if the game stops while you switch around your inventory then the whole balance of the game will be thrown into disarray.
