Can't wait for the narrative to be that "it was only a few kids" and not "perhaps we shouldn't have abruptly reopened schools"

  • D61 [any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I wonder if there ever will be a way to build a "time window" where we can just look at a scene from the past.

    I just want to know how many times the same thing has happened, with the same type of responses, throughout history.

    Like, did the people during the black plague years in Europe have to deal with the same conversations that we're having today? Was there some noble who was saying, "Nah, its just lazy folks who don't want to work," or ,"Come on man, its just the sniffles. Its not like it even affects children! You all will be fine!" Were there people who where like, "Hey, how about we clean out our houses and stuff really well and see if this helps," and there were people who would go door to door screaming at people who were trying to clean their houses about how they were being sheeple?

    • happybadger [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      My whole understanding of the plague years changed when I really understood what a flagellant is. There were roving bands of hundreds or even thousands of homeless men packed in a tight formation. They went from town to town breaking any kind of local quarantine measures where permitted. They whipped themselves bloody in public and then villagers would collect that blood and dab their eyes with it. It was done out of pure religious conviction.

      I imagine being a bird doctor. Not really sure of what I'm doing but trying my best with the closest thing I've got to a materialist understanding of the plague. Painstakingly cleaning my uniform, checking the leather for holes, filling the mask with herbs. I go to my window for a brief pause before starting my day in the plague ward. What do I see? An antimasker rally spreading variants from around the country. It's one of those historical moments where I really feel the :agony-shivering: of the poor schmuck.

      • Yllych [any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Damn where can I read more about that shit

        • happybadger [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          3 years ago

          https://i.redd.it/e4dzcglaf5i71.png

          There was a good podcast about that in particular but I can't remember if it was a socialist one, a science one, or a history one. It might have been one of Matt Christman's historical ones.

          edit: Last Podcast on the Left: https://www.lastpodcastontheleft.com/episodes/2021/7/2/episode-459-the-black-death-part-iv-meet-the-flagellants

      • D61 [any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Damn... some real "History doesn't repeat, it echoes" shit right here.

    • duderium [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      Long morning coffee post coming up.

      A lot of people out there probably want to know more about the bubonic plague epidemic in Europe in the 14th century. There's a bunch of good books I can think of about that period—called the Crisis of the 14th Century—if you're interested. Barbara Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror" is a little lib but still provides an excellent overview of daily life for most people in Western Europe at the time. A book like Gottfried's "The Black Death" is also lib but good. "Caliban and the Witch" provides a much more leftwing take on the transition from feudalism to capitalism but mostly deals with women rather than the plague. Wood's "The Origin of Capitalism" is also very good and useful, its basic point being that the creation of capitalism was far from inevitable.

      There are a few major similarities between coronavirus and the bubonic plague epidemic IMO. One: nobody in 14th century Europe understood that the plague was caused by fleas. This is because fleas were already all over the place and just kind of a fact of life. The quarantines of various medieval towns and cities were pretty much useless though because of the lack of understanding. Everybody thought they were just being punished by god, which is where the flagellants come in. (Thanks to Monty Python people think the flagellants are kind of a joke, but they were no joke at the time, and consisted of basically hordes of thousands of people who would destroy any town they visited.)

      Today with coronavirus, very few people understand that the disease is caused by capitalism—climate change, industrial factory farming, mass air travel, etc. Likewise, very few people (in the USA anyway) understand that enforced quarantines, shutting down non-essential businesses, and paying everyone to stay home is the way to stop the virus.

      At this point, libs are kind of in love with this shit because they get to lord it over Republicans, blame them for their problems, and just think: "Well, if all the Republicans die of covid, it'll be much easier for us to win the midterms!" Libs never gave a fuck about all the civilian deaths in Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan, so why should they start caring now?

      And although of course I'm in favor of vaccines, vaccination is just one weapon in the arsenal against the virus, and by itself is clearly not enough to stop it—yet vaccination is likewise the perfect neoliberal solution to the problem since it depends entirely on individual choice. For a society to implement this solution exclusively in a vast country of more than three hundred million people appears suicidal to me, however. The USA as a collective entity knows that it cannot continue and therefore wants to die.

      The second similarity between the 14th century epidemic and coronavirus is that in both cases, the ruling class just doesn't give a fuck. The plague killed few members of the 14th century European nobility because (although they would probably be considered dirty by modern standards) they were clean enough to keep themselves safe from the virus. Today, as far as I know, not a single billionaire has succumbed to coronavirus. Essentially: the richer you are, the less likely you will have to deal with the consequences of societal collapse—for the moment, anyway. Plus, the richer you are, the greater the likelihood that you've gotten way richer during the pandemic. There is a huge economic incentive to keep the pandemic going if you're a billionaire or a mega-millionaire.

      The plague broke out many times in Europe during and after the 14th century, although I think it was that first big wave that killed around a third of the population. That catastrophe was followed by centuries of peasant revolts and religious wars as well as the beginnings of modern colonialism, race-based slavery, capitalism, and genocide in the Americas. And although coronavirus isn't nearly as deadly as the bubonic plague was in the 14th century, it seems safe to predict that the overall situation across the planet and in the USA especially will just continue to be absolutely bonkers for the foreseeable future. This could culminate in the creation of a workers' state here in the former USA or some kind of techno dystopian neo-feudalism, or both, or neither.

      • D61 [any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Was not expecting an effortpost for my benign shower thought comment.

        :sankara-salute:

    • Parenti [comrade/them,any]
      hexagon
      ·
      3 years ago

      I don't have evidence for this, but it seems like things got noticeably worse around the cold war era. Then you have the era of Reaganism, distrust of civil servants of any kind and strong emphasis on personal responsibility/complete demonization of the collective