Its really fucking funny that you push back at anyone disagreeing with your statement as if they are opposed to socialism. Your op was infantilizing, what's the point of saying "this elected socialist should consider making a movement?" that shit was weird. You think I started an argument by stating that the Peruvian military acts a certain way? You can't say you just wanted to open a dialogue and then also be upset that the necessary context was stated. YOU decided the insurgency was irrelevant to the point, you decided to be hostile over the fact that I brought up the specifics of Peru on this matter.

“Damn, I hope they do socialism.” Yeah exactly, that sentiment is a weirdly patronizing thing to say about a socialist movement that just got its guy in office. They did the thing, they did the mass movement. You are acting offended because I objected to the attitude of this statement

I hope Castillo and Peru Libre can learn from the examples of Venezuela and Bolivia and build power outside the government. I'm sorry but that's a reductive and kinda paternalistic thing to say about a movement that succeeded. And when anyone adds onto that, like you claim you want, you fucking call it a dissertation of Peruvian politics or irrelevant. You don't want a discussion, you said a simplistic and mildly patronizing (accidentally) thing and then got angry over the fact that I mentioned the conditions in Peru.

Because it looks to me like you’re saying that the public cannot and should not have any role in the government accomplishing their goals, which is an absurd thing to say. And also that purging the military is an alternative strategy to building support outside the government, not a complementary one, despite acknowledging in the same sentence that Chavez did both of those things? Ok I have no fucking clue how you can accuse me of twisting things when you say shit like this.

I don’t think building power outside the government is the way to go here. Chavez got support outside the government yes, but also then purged the military and much of his non-governmental support early on was for him as part of the army. Does not say "mass movements are bad and "the public cannot and should not have any role in the government accomplishing their goals". Yeah that would be an absurd thing to say, and evidentially you are high or something because that quote says nothing of the sort. You wanna talk specifically and ONLY about the options available for Castillo, ok then in that circumstance building power outside the government is not the way to SPECIFICALLY change the military. The needed support did its job, for this matter you have to deal with the current military and neutralize it.

That is my point, its the point others have made as well; the problem is the Peruvian military and its power, curtailing that once a socialist is in power will require removing these fucking ghouls from their positions and putting trusted leftists in the military brass. Mass organizing cannot specifically appoint generals in Peru. I didn't fucking say "the public cannot and should not have any role in the government accomplishing their goals" I said the way to go on THIS MATTER is going to have to be using Castillo's powers as president.

That is literally all I said. You simultaneously want to only talk about very specific parameters, and then suddenly claim that my response to those specific parameters is a freaking definitive statement on politics as a whole and not literally just appointments to the military. You want it both ways, but don't want anyone else to either be specific or general. Are we talking about appointments to the military or about literally all of Peruvian politics and the creation of socialism in Peru? Because I thought we were just talking about the generals.

I know this is on the exact topic you want to talk about and not outside it.....so you will call it irrelevant. but here I am sorry for seeming rude, but your comment just seemed patronizing towards Peruvians and like a silly thing to point to on this specific matter. Here is the 14th duty of the Peruvian president according to article 118 of the 1993 constitution

Preside over the National Defense System; and organize, distribute and arrange the employment of the Armed Forces and the National Police. And Article 172

The President of the Republic grants the promotions of generals and admirals in the Armed Forces, as well as generals in the National Police upon recommendation from the relevant institution.

Those are explicitly Castillo's powers, THAT is why I said the way to go is not external pressure, because Castillo has the power himself to remove these men. Now he has to be careful because if they say he is "politically motivated" in his appointments they will then probably kill him with US approval. But the means of addressing the specific issue you are talking about, and say you are exclusively talking about is in these two articles.

Don't act like I am speaking about the concept of mass movements, either you are lying or seriously jumping the gun and calling the kettle black. Stop fucking acting like you are the victim and I am against people doing politics, just because I said your comment was simplistic and am concerned that the Peruvian military will massacre people. That is why I brought up Shining Path, THAT is why I said the presidential powers are the way to go. Because I am earnestly afraid of what the military will do to "power outside the government" because yes no shit popular movements are the entire soul of socialism, but we are not talking about the idea of popular movements or the soul of socialism. We are talking about the corrupt military brass of Peru, and they literally 20 years ago where massacring journalists and peasants for popular movements calling them "insurgents".

My concern over that is not about you, or thinking you are a rube. I am just saying before anything else is tried, the presidential office making appointments is the way to go. This is not a matter of

started rambling about the history of the Shining Path or berate me for not providing a detailed history of Peruvian politics? I seriously apologize if I came off that way, but no the nature of the Peruvian military and Shining Path are not rambles or detailed history of Peruvian politics; they are the fundamental basis of

I don’t think building power outside the government is the way to go here. Chavez got support outside the government yes, but also then purged the military and much of his non-governmental support early on was for him as part of the army. You harp on that quote while separately complaining about the shit that explains what that quote means calling it irrelevant and acting like its just a dissertation on Peru. No that shit was not a ramble unrelated or disconnected to that exact quote, that WAS the point of the quote. You complained about my reasoning as irrelevant, and then act like my argument has no reasoning. No you just in the same breath shrugged off the reasoning.

You cannot act like I am dismissing the power of the masses, because I am specifically concerned over the violence done upon them. Again, you might find it a ramble about Peruvian history, but no dammit the way the military dealt with "insurgents" is inseparable and paramount to any matter involving the popular movements in Peru. Its insulting and disgusting to pretend like I said the people have no role in their government and your reasoning for that is the fact that my primary hang-up is the legacy of Grupo Colina and the massacres in the 90s. You are saying I am against popular participation, because I am bringing up the violence the Peruvian military uses against the people. Stop thinking about owns or responses to your post, and consider the fact that what I am talking about is the actual massacring of Peruvians and how best to avoid that happening again. This is not about you, or anyone thinking you are stupid, I swear to you.

Don't you dare conflate my fears over another Barrios Altos massacre with thinking the people have no role in socialism. Say whatever you want, but that's crossing a line. My bringing them up is not irrelevant to my response, it is the basis of it. And they are sure as fuck not "being pedantic"