IMHO I do not think nuclear will save us from climate change - it takes too long to get going to be effective - but this is going to really agitate some chud/nerd brains worms

  • WranglesGammon [comrade/them]
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    edit-2
    3 years ago

    (sorry if my last message came across a bit pissy btw dude, I'm having a rough day but I didn't intend for that to come across like I worry it might have done)

    I get what you meant about the bunker, but the long-term solution still hinges on some type of bunker that doesn't exist yet. Some of the issues with projects like you mentioned: areas like you described are very rare. Very little of the planet is a decent distance away from human settlements and habitats, and even if the local water table isn't adjacent to anything important, the nature of the hydrological cycle and the patterns of settlements and habitats mean that contaminated water from some inevitable, unforeseen failure modes will eventually run somewhere that there's wildlife, and then everywhere that there's wildlife. Also, digging giant caves both in mountains and other rock, ensuring they're structurally sound (even just for centuries), then shipping the building materials out to the site, constructing a sealed container large enough to be useful, then ensuring the safe transport of nuclear waste to the site is an overwhelmingly enormous infrastructure project filled with failure modes, and all that for what amounts to creating a single landfill. We don't even know how to build enough of these to store the enormous amount of waste we already have, let alone enough to accommodate the massive amount from any serious increase in nuclear's generation capacity. All this is to say that yeah we can temporarily manage some amount of nuclear waste, but we really can't deal with a huge increase in energy generation like we can with renewables without creating the absolutely colossal problems that insufficient containment of massive amounts of nuclear waste would cause. And even if we could store it all in ideal conditions, our lack of sufficient containment technology would require its continued monitoring and maintenance, possibly long after we're even capable of performing it. Landfills in the event of actual social collapse WILL at some stage (albeit over a very long period of time, but if nobody is around to stop it then that becomes arbitrary) release their contents across the planet alongside all the other landfills, most likely killing everything on it.

    How come you don't think that renewables would be able to fill the gap in a degrown energy landscape? And yeah the current most commonly generated forms of renewable energy suffer from intermittancy and (at the moment) curtailment issues, but accompanied by storage systems like flow batteries etc. they're just as compatible with the grid network as the highly tunable generators from coal and nuclear plants. While materials and energy are consumed in the production of solar panels and wind turbines etc., to me at least it's far more preferable to use abundant materials for clean, scaled-back energy generation without the logistical nightmare of creating huge landfills for ticking time bombs we're then charged with maintaining for millennia.

    • DefinitelyNotAPhone [he/him]
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      3 years ago

      No worries, in hindsight I'm vaguely being that :reddit-logo: nerd arguing with an expert on their own field so I can imagine how that wouldn't help lol

      I hadn't considered the sheer expense and effort involved in those long-term storage solutions, and you are correct that it's hard to be sure that a water table is actually isolated especially over extremely long time periods. It's a shitshow, but I think our back is already against the wall with climate change and it seems like the lesser evil.

      Other renewables are quickly getting better, but they still fundamentally fall into issues of not doing enough fast enough or being too dependent on good conditions. Photovoltaic solar cells have a frontloaded carbon footprint that takes a few years to "pay off" by replacing fossil fuels (admittedly this is getting much better than it used to be) and only works in sunlight, reflective solar plants are massively space-wasteful and only really work in desert settings and also only work in sunlight, hydroelectric exasperates water conflicts, wind farms are okay but have the same issues as reflective solar. Low-tech battery infrastructure is a hard requirement either way but I don't think you can entirely cover the required minimum load on the grid with water pumps and such; you need something that can pump out consistent loads no matter what at least until we figure out fusion. Nuclear is the only real option that I see there.

      It is basically kicking the can down the road, but at least the can gets smaller and doesn't cause megahurricanes.