Genzedong is so fucking cringe. Like, I enjoy them when they dunk on chuds and stuff. But they’re so openly biased and critical of anyone with a different theory or view on anti-capitalism, leftist, and socialism that it just gets irritating. I’m glad this place (which I’m sure has a lot of genzedong users) is still vehemently pro left-unity (despite having a much bigger “ML” base).
Clearly you haven't been called a trot here once a week because you linked an article that has one negative sentence about China in it.
I was going to post "no problem Mr. Zenz", but instead I've decided to be sincere.
I recently posted a critical comment on one of your article posts. I cited specific sections which were repating Zenz's claims. Your response was to say that meant the article was good. Now you complain here about "being called a trot".
If you want to piss people on this forum off, that's fine and it's your right. But maybe find a different way to do it than repeating literal, actual CIA propaganda.
Yes, that article was 98% shitting on the US and how they fucked up in Afghanistan and only partially mentioned China. And sorry that i replied that but i'm kinda tired arguing about it all the time, since it's years and i'm not at all convinced still that what is going on in China is "voluntary vocational courses" or what they call it.
BTW i'm not even trying to piss anyone off, i dump articles here i want to read later, so of course there will be shit among them, you're absolutely right to call those out, but they don't necessarily mirror my views.
Fair enough, my response was pretty keyed up too. I'm pretty touchy on the propaganda thing because it bothers me to see leftists (those who write the articles, I mean) repeating the CIA points.
I do think there's a discussion to be had on the precise methods of China's de-radicalization programs and such, and it's unfortunate the propaganda muddies the water so much and makes that harder. Hope you have a good day!
This is a very unfair comment considering 90% of the content """""""critical""""""" of China you are likely to find is just bullshit US propaganda talking points, specialy in 2020 during the Zens media blitz.
When you are actually dealing with content that somehow manages to not do that then you have other problems like why western "leftists" opinions should matter at all when we can't affect anything and many of these opinions could be direct contradictions to what the actual Chinese people want and believe in and worst of all the west is completely incapable of moving towards socialism anyway. We can't fix our problems, we are not even trying and fighting, in fact we faced nothing but defeat over and over.
To me any content critical of China needs to clear a very high bar so that I don't immediately die from hypocrisy overdose or something.
What i consider unfair is handwaving 90% of legit criticism of China as "bullshit US propaganda" even if it clearly distances itself from Zenz and the likes and comes from communists from the philippines for example.
But this isn't about China btw, any AES or "AES" is lifted on a pedestal here and most criticism is called out as bullshit/western propaganda/whatever as a kneejerk reaction.
What i consider unfair is handwaving 90% of legit criticism of China as “bullshit US propaganda” even if it clearly distances itself from Zenz and the likes and comes from communists from the philippines for example.
I am mostly pointing out you can consider it "legit" if you want, just don't get mad if 90% of the community and other MLs don't and there is reason for it.
most criticism is called out as bullshit/western propaganda/whatever as a kneejerk reaction.
I'd just say show me the lies because I can certainly point how most of the criticism if filled with them.
As for whatever leftists in the Philippines are saying I'll say I don't know what their criticism are, however I'll give the example of that random Indian communist article that made rounds around here.
Heck even the OP was making the same point as you showing that they were given that article as "proof" of legitimate criticism.
In that example that was absolutely shit repackaging US talking points by removing Zens and it doesn't make it legitimate at all, in fact that article made a huge leap in moral and logical reasoning i.e China's bad because I say so and those Muslim countries that support it are also bad/wrong too because I say so.
It is possible for third world organizations to say shit too, nobody is perfect.
Just look at how Latin America is filled with trot parties constantly complaining about "Stalinism", their pejorative term for ML/authoritarianism, and yet they are constantly failing to achieve anything. Just look at some Brazilian orgs(PCO).
I am mostly pointing out you can consider it “legit” if you want, just don’t get mad if 90% of the community and other MLs don’t and there is reason for it.
I'm not getting mad (yet i reply lol), i'm just pointing out that this space also has some way to achieve left unity. Last year i was being called an anarkiddie for the same takes and now a trot, i guess it's progress?
Heck even the OP was making the same point as you showing that they were given that article as “proof” of legitimate criticism. In that example that was absolutely shit repackaging US talking points by removing Zens and it doesn’t make it legitimate at all, in fact that article made a huge leap in moral and logical reasoning i.e China’s bad because I say so and those Muslim countries that support it are also bad/wrong too because I say so.
I'm really really curious about what you guys would consider to be a legitimate criticism of what China does in Xinjiang, because after the linked thread and the constant struggle sessions about the issue makes me think the answer is "none."
Clearly you haven't been called a trot here once a week because you linked an article that has one negative sentence about China in it.
If you don't want to be "called a trot", don't link trot articles that uncritically repeat Uyghur Genocide propaganda.
Thanks for the demo
I was going to post "no problem Mr. Zenz", but instead I've decided to be sincere.
I recently posted a critical comment on one of your article posts. I cited specific sections which were repating Zenz's claims. Your response was to say that meant the article was good. Now you complain here about "being called a trot".
If you want to piss people on this forum off, that's fine and it's your right. But maybe find a different way to do it than repeating literal, actual CIA propaganda.
Yes, that article was 98% shitting on the US and how they fucked up in Afghanistan and only partially mentioned China. And sorry that i replied that but i'm kinda tired arguing about it all the time, since it's years and i'm not at all convinced still that what is going on in China is "voluntary vocational courses" or what they call it.
BTW i'm not even trying to piss anyone off, i dump articles here i want to read later, so of course there will be shit among them, you're absolutely right to call those out, but they don't necessarily mirror my views.
Fair enough, my response was pretty keyed up too. I'm pretty touchy on the propaganda thing because it bothers me to see leftists (those who write the articles, I mean) repeating the CIA points.
I do think there's a discussion to be had on the precise methods of China's de-radicalization programs and such, and it's unfortunate the propaganda muddies the water so much and makes that harder. Hope you have a good day!
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This is a very unfair comment considering 90% of the content """""""critical""""""" of China you are likely to find is just bullshit US propaganda talking points, specialy in 2020 during the Zens media blitz.
When you are actually dealing with content that somehow manages to not do that then you have other problems like why western "leftists" opinions should matter at all when we can't affect anything and many of these opinions could be direct contradictions to what the actual Chinese people want and believe in and worst of all the west is completely incapable of moving towards socialism anyway. We can't fix our problems, we are not even trying and fighting, in fact we faced nothing but defeat over and over.
To me any content critical of China needs to clear a very high bar so that I don't immediately die from hypocrisy overdose or something.
What i consider unfair is handwaving 90% of legit criticism of China as "bullshit US propaganda" even if it clearly distances itself from Zenz and the likes and comes from communists from the philippines for example.
But this isn't about China btw, any AES or "AES" is lifted on a pedestal here and most criticism is called out as bullshit/western propaganda/whatever as a kneejerk reaction.
I am mostly pointing out you can consider it "legit" if you want, just don't get mad if 90% of the community and other MLs don't and there is reason for it.
I'd just say show me the lies because I can certainly point how most of the criticism if filled with them.
As for whatever leftists in the Philippines are saying I'll say I don't know what their criticism are, however I'll give the example of that random Indian communist article that made rounds around here.
Heck even the OP was making the same point as you showing that they were given that article as "proof" of legitimate criticism. In that example that was absolutely shit repackaging US talking points by removing Zens and it doesn't make it legitimate at all, in fact that article made a huge leap in moral and logical reasoning i.e China's bad because I say so and those Muslim countries that support it are also bad/wrong too because I say so.
It is possible for third world organizations to say shit too, nobody is perfect. Just look at how Latin America is filled with trot parties constantly complaining about "Stalinism", their pejorative term for ML/authoritarianism, and yet they are constantly failing to achieve anything. Just look at some Brazilian orgs(PCO).
I'm not getting mad (yet i reply lol), i'm just pointing out that this space also has some way to achieve left unity. Last year i was being called an anarkiddie for the same takes and now a trot, i guess it's progress?
I'm really really curious about what you guys would consider to be a legitimate criticism of what China does in Xinjiang, because after the linked thread and the constant struggle sessions about the issue makes me think the answer is "none."
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Okay, that's true
How do I achieve being called a trot :trot-shining:
I need to up chuang posting
I don't think i ever posted Chuang here. Lausan is better anyway.
:meow-shining:
Oh yeah, lol. That's true.