What is it?

  • Mardoniush [she/her]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    It's the ideal that material circumstances (ie. economic restrictions, social structures as they actually operate, physical reality) are basal to Idealist conceptions in human societies. Rather than some talented guy going "I'm gonna do a one-tag now" and imposing a great idea on the world by the force of his beliefs.

    That is, your morals and your feelings and culture and how you want the world to be, both as an individual, a class, and a society, are almost entirely determined by material relations. Additionally, what you can do with those ideals is restricted by the same circumstances.

    That's why you can't wake up as Napoleon in 1811 and decide to mash the Communism button. That's why if Napoleon had been born 50 years earlier he'd have died an artillery major.

    Now there is a dialectic here, in that within the narrow range of possibilities, ideals can choose, and that interaction dictates the change in material circumstances, which then alters the idealist superstructure. But material reality is prime in this.

    People and their beliefs matter and can change the world, but the world decides where and how change can happen.

    • wmz [any]
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      Yes, but I fail to see how this is "radically different". In fact, in some ways I feel this is just an alternative version of the "great man theory": Instead of the idea of great individuals facilitating change, it is the "material conditions" that facilitate change. In both of these scenarios, the causes of change seem distant and intangible, which could easily lead to a deterministic and nihlistic view of history. (i.e. whatever happens was meant to happen, my individual actions have no impact etc) Perhaps Im treating these metanarratives too broadly.

      • Mardoniush [she/her]
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        edit-2
        3 years ago

        No, it's that material conditions restrict choices, so an analysis of them is needed to chart the right course. Marx is explicitly developing his theory not just as a description but as a method of deciding action.

        It's not dogmatic and ultra-determinist, it's dynamic, changing, with ideals and material reality in a constant, mutually altering tension and flux between the world as it is and as it will be, and how the world as it is alters our desires for how it should be, and vice versa.

        Masses and individuals have a great effect, but their power isn't infinite, and what they want is also contingent. And until you know how the current society arose from the interaction of material reality with people's desires, you cannot see the avenues where positive change is possible, the avenues that lead to a worse outcome, and those that lead to dead ends.

        EDIT: one thing is to remember Marx is developing this in contrast to Hegel. Whereas Hegel says the "Zeitgeist" determines the course of history, Marx says it first arises from history, then alters it.

        • wmz [any]
          hexagon
          ·
          3 years ago

          I see now, thanks for clarifying!

      • happybadger [he/him]
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        3 years ago

        Yes, but I fail to see how this is “radically different”. In fact, in some ways I feel this is just an alternative version of the “great man theory”

        Here it is in contrast to great man idealism:

        https://www.marxists.org/archive/brecht/works/1935/questions.htm

        Who built Thebes of the 7 gates ? In the books you will read the names of kings. Did the kings haul up the lumps of rock ?

        And Babylon, many times demolished, Who raised it up so many times ?

        In what houses of gold glittering Lima did its builders live ? Where, the evening that the Great Wall of China was finished, did the masons go?

        Great Rome is full of triumphal arches. Who erected them ?

        Over whom did the Caesars triumph ? Had Byzantium, much praised in song, only palaces for its inhabitants ?

        Even in fabled Atlantis, the night that the ocean engulfed it, The drowning still cried out for their slaves.

        The young Alexander conquered India. Was he alone ?

        Caesar defeated the Gauls. Did he not even have a cook with him ?

        Philip of Spain wept when his armada went down. Was he the only one to weep ?

        Frederick the 2nd won the 7 Years War. Who else won it ?

        Every page a victory. Who cooked the feast for the victors ?

        Every 10 years a great man. Who paid the bill ?

        So many reports.

        So many questions.

      • comi [he/him]
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        3 years ago

        No, material conditions produce the need, leader provides vessel to channel them through, they are dependent on each other :shrug-outta-hecks: there are thousands of lenins, or ches around the world, but they don’t have societal conditions to become large figures of history, just as myriad of conflicts got choked cause the people which responded to societal need where not capable of doing something