https://twitter.com/IndiccAmsha/status/1742551206868771087?s=19
I have some devastating news for the hindutva fascists (not Indians in general): you will never be white or part of the west. Union carbide will dump chemicals on your land, Cargill will sell your farmers one time seed, metro PCS will make racist ass commercials about your accent. The only reason they are pumping you up is so you go fight china for them. You are part of the global south, embrace it. You are one of us.
Pakistan , India and bangladesh can never truly integrate into anti colonial and anti imperialist movement due to various reasons , specially the religious fundamentalism embedded into our culture.
Pakistan can't due to its elite (mainly its military being a complete puppet of the west and looting the country along with their civilian facade). Of course fundamentalism plays some part as the military utilizes it to a great extent, but a lot of it has to do with the country's resources being looted and its money stored in offshore accounts.
I can't speak for India or Bangladesh. I will say that the caste system is a detriment to development and that is definitely a form religious fundamentalism.
Muslims in India and Bangladesh don't have much caste system but Indian hindus have. Religious fundamentalism has played a crucial on the downfall of secularism and rationality in South Asia due to the funding of wahabi movements from Saudis and Qataris.
Oh yeah, Muslim and other nations primarily were gravitating towards left wing socialism post independence but the west and their puppets made sure there was a reactionary tilt. But let's not give colonization and compradors a bail out by blaming only religion. The Pakistan army and elites don't have a religion problem, they have a greed problem.
Pakistan was pretty much dead when it was pronounced that it will be Islamic republic and Urdu would be the national language. Pakistan is much more diverse and beautiful than what political parties , ulema made out to be. Pakistan has baloch , punjabi , sindhi (the land of sufis and indus valley civilization) and has numerous languages but in the long term military dictatorship and religious fanaticism has prevented pakistan to become a country of unity in diversity . Yes , Indians have those problems too but in Pakistan much of regionalism was suppressed at the start and you can see the departure of bangladesh because of that.
Bangladesh got separated because bhutto and his generals were power hungry, greedy pieces of shit. It had nothing to do with religion or culture. If they had just respected the elections, all that bloodshed could have been avoided. I am not saying religion isn't a factor but let's stop acting like little bill mahers here.
Edit: the bhutto family is still fucking up Pakistani politics and development with their greed.
To add: Those compradors ousting Imran Khan in the coup had nothing at all to do with religion and culture. All the elites saw the social welfare programs and corruption being curtailed (even 1%) and they got antsy and helped America do a coup.
I am not fan of any religion and you know very well Islamic Republic of Pakistan was the foundational problem for East bengal and Pakistan itself. You can gloss over the religion part but Jinnah thought declaring Urdu as national language will bring pious Muslims closer to Islam or will have a national identity. Even now Baloch people are suppressed there. You cannot build a sound society when you declare a society will be built on a particular religion not by pragmatic and secular law. You can watch Com.Taimur Rehman of Pakistan for his ideas and thoughts.
That sort of attitude was ingrained into these places by the British, do you really want to just do what the British want you to do?
its a wrong theory and ahistorical. Religious tensions was there and it will be for many years to come. Religion brings problems and anti materialism which is a false consciousness
How so? Or maybe I'm not making my point clear. The British didn't invent these tensions, but they did exacerbate them as much as they could, and the modern situation is a result of that far more than previous tensions.
I agree that religion is as anti-materialist as it gets, but people are religious and will fight for their religious beliefs, you can't just make people stop being religious overnight. I can't imagine a truly communist society having religion really, but it's a process that takes generations of people slowly losing the need for religion in their lives, the USSR's attempts at suppressing religion were ultimately unsuccessful and those same religious leaders would often work with enemies of the communists to undermine and overthrow them because they saw them as a threat to their power. Unfortunately it has to be done delicately because religion is such a powerful force for reaction.
USSR was very successful in their attempts. I recently watched a video from Uzbekistan in 1970s there was neither islamic fundamentalism or closures of mosques. Don't iterate the liberal propaganda that campaign against religion was a failure in USSR. The return happened due to the capitalism and chauvinists in every region of ex USSR states.
Bro there was saint Kabir, Meera, sufis etc. In their poems they always had written about the animosity and hatred between hindus and Muslims. British just sparked the tension in 20th century by aligning themselves with Hindus and Muslim fundamentalists. But obviously the partition was inevitable. There was either of the chauvinism, it's Islamic supremacist or Hindus. It was just a good moment in history of India that Nehru was socialist and secular oriented. Even his colleagues were pro hindu chauvinists like Sardar Patel and etc.
This is a Gangetic problem, not an Indian problem
South India and Maharashtra have far less fundamentalism (I'm not trying to be chauvinist here, I've heard this from multiple non-desis who only learned what these provinces were after visiting India)
There's a strange type of "exclusively punch down + religious fundamentalism" brainworm complex that peaks in Northern India, including Bengal. It resembles the right-wing rhetoric that I see from certain Latinos
lol , no it is because in Maharashtra and in South India there was a anti vedic movement (Periyar , Ambedkar , Ligyayat , Joytiba Phule ) where religious reforms were carried out but I won't give these states free pass . Maha is ruled by Sena type extremists and TN has considerable casteism. Its a whitewash to say south India doesn't have religious problem.
Sure, but just anecdotally speaking, every Indian I've talked to online (so a few dozen) who had takes like the OP tweet ended up being northern. Very often Gangetic, Nepali Bahuns, some Assamese, a few from Uttar Pradesh, a few Bengalis. Not as many Punjabis as you'd think given their obvious ancestry differences.
a decent number of them have a weird combination of reactionary punching down + sucking up to white nationalists + defeatism
All of these people were english-fluent enough that I could understand them perfectly, so I'd imagine direct material conditions are not the problem, and that it has more to do with the previous history of the gangetic region and the cultural quirks that materialized from it
Even southern brahmins have these qualities though. It's nothing special 🤣 .
I have some devastating news for the hindutva fascists (not Indians in general): you will never be white or part of the west.
Remains to be seen, it is a very fluid composition
True, they upgraded Ukrainians for a bit and downgraded Russians to Mongols. It's like bond ratings for races lol.
I mean you can go back to like actual Hitler and that guy was giving out honorary aryan certificates like it was candy
The japense? White
The turks? Guess what, white.
Amin al-Husseini, guess what, that fucker is white now.
This comment is getting dangerously close to some anti-Latino rhetoric!
India has more poor people than Sub-Saharan Africa in absolute terms. Hindutva fascists are so deluded, do they not go outside and see poverty with their own eyes?
Globally, extreme poverty is estimated to increase from 8.5% to 9%, representing 41 million more people living in extreme poverty in 2019. India accounts for almost 70% of this global change in extreme poverty (the revisions to the India series are explained in the What’s New document). At the $3.65 poverty line, India accounts for 40% of the slight upward revision of the global poverty rate from 23.6% to 24.1%. At the $6.85 poverty line, virtually no change is observed in global poverty estimates.
https://blogs.worldbank.org/opendata/september-2023-global-poverty-update-world-bank-new-data-poverty-during-pandemic-asia
India is literally ranked 111th on the world hunger index but the BJP sarkar and World Bank will use cool metrics like multi-dimensional poverty index where caloric deficit and non-existent healthcare can be somewhat offset by owning a smartphone to deduce that poverty is getting better. :)
It's because the west said a few nice things about them. Colonization really wreaked havoc on a lot of brains, not just in India.
Dude is setting the bar high for the beginning of 2024. Imagine what deranged things we'll see by the end of the year!
This guy looks like he hasn't properly chilled out in years. Just look at that forehead crease lol
Seems like a typical (east) Asian-hating lib to me tbh. They're common enough, though I'd not have expected this exact combination from Indians
It is a little odd but it a nice breath of fresh air to not have one of these disgusting creatures fetishizing us.
Complain about overcrowding only to impose a one child policy on others for... Overcrowding?
Took a look through their profile. Interesting to say the least. But luckily we have freeze peach on X amirite!!!!
writing ethno nationalist fanfic and using AI as your real life doll sure is something, horrid
Few things have made me want to cook up a involuntary human extinction project more than guys like this
I hate these dumbass Hindu nationalists. Their weird love for "Israel," their insistence that Europeans and Americans actually care about where they fall in the caste system, their belief that westerners consider them somehow "white" -- everything about them is just delusional. Only Zionists and Ukrainian nazis inhabit a weirder headspace.
hindu nationalists are extremely delusional , they think India is no. 1. Partly because they think India developed a grand philosophy called Advaita Vedanta which is seeing God (Brahman ) in every living being on Earth. Now , it is correct we developed this philosophy but it had a catch , lower caste people and shudras were thought as inferior because of sins carried from previous birth. It was embedded in Bhagavad gita , upanishads that is originally "Hindu Dharma" but when biritsh colonized india , hindus came up with a new interpretation which is everybody is equal and caste system is a product of colonialism . Hindus have become arrogant and our history has been distorted to a large amount.
https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/chandogya-upanishad-english/d/doc239196.html तद्य इह रमणीयचरणा अभ्याशो ह यत्ते रमणीयां योनिमापद्येरन्ब्राह्मणयोनिं वा क्षत्रिययोनिं वा वैश्ययोनिं वाथ य इह कपूयचरणा अभ्याशो ह यत्ते कपूयां योनिमापद्येरञ्श्वयोनिं वा सूकरयोनिं वा चण्डालयोनिं वा ॥ ५.१०.७ ॥
tadya iha ramaṇīyacaraṇā abhyāśo ha yatte ramaṇīyāṃ yonimāpadyeranbrāhmaṇayoniṃ vā kṣatriyayoniṃ vā vaiśyayoniṃ vātha ya iha kapūyacaraṇā abhyāśo ha yatte kapūyāṃ yonimāpadyerañśvayoniṃ vā sūkarayoniṃ vā caṇḍālayoniṃ vā || 5.10.7 || 7. Among them, those who did good work in this world [in their past life] attain a good birth accordingly. They are born as a brāhmin, a kṣatriya, or a vaiśya. But those who did bad work in this world [in their past life] attain a bad birth accordingly, being born as a dog, a pig, or as a casteless person.Obviously it was not all caste we had some good things too like every religion but NOT ABSOLUTELY GOOD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasadiya_Sukta
Nasadiya Sukta (Hymn of non-Eternity, origin of universe):
There was neither non-existence nor existence then; Neither the realm of space, nor the sky which is beyond; What stirred? Where? In whose protection?
There was neither death nor immortality then; No distinguishing sign of night nor of day; That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse; Other than that there was nothing beyond.
Darkness there was at first, by darkness hidden; Without distinctive marks, this all was water; That which, becoming, by the void was covered; That One by force of heat came into being;
Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it? Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation? Gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe. Who then knows whence it has arisen?
Whether God's will created it, or whether He was mute; Perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not; The Supreme Brahman of the world, all pervasive and all knowing He indeed knows, if not, no one knows
Very interesting (I'm fascinated by world religions/philosophies). The part about rebirth reminds me of Plato, who of course came much later. He has Socrates say in various dialogues that we inhabit a corrupted zone of the earth; those who lead good lives can after death be reborn in the higher, more beautiful regions of earth, while those who practice virtue and devote their lives to wisdom will after death leave their physical bodies and the physical world and go to live with God and the "forms." But those who are vicious in life will be reborn as animals or plants; and if their sins are particularly vile, they will not even be allowed to live on earth, but will be punished in a region of fire at the center of the earth.
I remember coming across the second passage, or something like it, in a biography of Beethoven. He was apparently deeply moved by certain Hindu writings and copied out entire sections in his notebooks.
Yeah Vedic people or sadhus questioned this thing why we have inequality and plight but I think the earlier Aryans when colonized northern India they put aboriginal people into lower caste due to the fear of race mixing and of losing the priestly status . We might never know the whole truth but in Upanishads (what I had read) it has mixed messages , At one time it is speaking about forcing wives into sex and in other one connection between Brahman and atman , even the founder of Advaita had contradictory teachings . On one had he established the vedic principle of castes but he himself said when you reach the true Brahman . It loses distinction , perhaps he was confused .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara
I am Consciousness, I am Bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva.[note 15] Without hate, without infatuation, without craving, without greed; Neither arrogance, nor conceit, never jealous I am; Neither dharma, nor wealth, neither lust, nor moksha am I; I am Consciousness, I am Bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva. Without sins, without merits, without elation, without sorrow; Neither mantra, nor rituals, neither pilgrimage, nor Vedas; Neither the experiencer, nor experienced, nor the experience am I, I am Consciousness, I am Bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva. Without fear, without death, without discrimination, without caste; Neither father, nor mother, never born I am; Neither kith, nor kin, neither teacher, nor student am I; I am Consciousness, I am Bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva. Without form, without figure, without resemblance am I; Vitality of all senses, in everything I am; Neither attached, nor released am I; I am Consciousness, I am Bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva.—Adi Shankara, Nirvana Shatakam, Hymns 3–6
Again, very interesting, and extremely powerful poetry. Shiva is the personification of death, correct? And moksha means "illusion," as in desire for transitory things? So the divine, by being beyond all opposites, is utterly simple and utterly beyond human comprehension. This is actually really beautiful and profound, if I'm understanding it right.
the earlier Aryans when colonized northern India they put aboriginal people into lower caste due to the fear of race mixing and of losing the priestly status
I've heard that some Hindutva types get around this by denying the Aryan invasions ever happened.
I’ve heard that some Hindutva types get around this by denying the Aryan invasions ever happened. Yes , they propagate aryans originated from India lol. I also think its a gross misunderstanding that Aryans "invaded" like they quashed every people , it might be plausible but how can these different languages of North India survive the onslaught of Sanskrit if the onslaught was massive. I think aryans rituals and norms got mixed up with local cultures and by these fusions a new society emerged which is vedic . There is a lot of confusion in that regard because southern people think (like here in the chat) Brahmins and upper caste don't belong to India or a certain region. This is largely abhorrent and shouldn't be practiced . India is largely mixed because of being a melting pot of different groups and people , Greeks , Kushans , Huns , Afghans , Turks , Babur all came and brought their culture and ethos . Indo aryans people brought their Vedas and theology. If we discard everything regarding Vedas ,Upanishads and the great epics then what should remain of India ? (the great dance , Indian classical music comes from Sama Veda )
Another thing yes , caste system existed from middle to late vedic age and it exists till now. The caste system is inbuilt into Hinduism because of ignorance and feudal mode of production in ancient society . Modern hindu groups are denying these allegations and its horrendous to justify it.-
Shiva is a complicated god , he is destroyer of maya (avidya) or ignorance . Shivaism predates vedic religion and Siva mythologies and ethos were put into hindu puranas in late 600 CE. Shiva is actually not death but a man who won over maya (illusion of reality ) and he forever remains into this "bliss" state . He is poor , lives with ghosts , snakes , drinks poison . It is just to convey simple ethos and "brahman" is not with worldly pleasures and work. Brahman is gender less , formless , casteless and infinite. In Hinduism anything can be personal god (isharva) (some restrictions are obviously there ) . Shiva followers see Shiva as the absolute brahman , he has neither shape or gender (that what it is written by Sankara , he was a shivaite ) .
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Moksha means liberation from cycle of birth and dying , here Sankara is saying there is some higher plain which goes beyond traditional concept of previous rituals and understanding .
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I could envision a world where Indians with passing complexion become white. It's happening with West Asians after all.
India would be incredibly useful to the empire geopolitically, and if the global economy keeps bifurcating (or Chinese wages get too high) they may also have to replace China as the source of cheap labor for the West. That won't really work out well considering they're also in the firing line of the climate catastrophe, but who knows, maybe climate engineering works out and India doesn't become largely uninhabitable.
they may also have to replace China as the source of cheap labor for the West.
Besides the climate catastrophe -- which I'm with you in hoping humanity finds a way to mitigate -- there's also the problem of building India into a modern advanced industrial economy that can replace China. China's industrialization is rightly seen by the rest of the world as a kind of miracle, made possible (though western countries hate to admit it) by the fact of its being a Marxist-Leninist state. Specifically, land reform, political unity, the government's ability to mobilize the masses, and a theoretical framework which understands the role of capitalism in the context of Chinese and world history have been the cornerstones of China's economic success. The west likes to boast about how capitalist investment "raised" China to what it is today, but the fact is that no other government could have done with that investment what China did. Certainly Modi's government does not have the power, ability, or necessary base among the people to achieve what Mao, Deng, and Xi have done.
If you listen really closely while reading this, you can hear the beginningless wheel of suffering steadily grinding this guy's brain to pulp
There isn't a word like lebensraum in Hindi as far as I know. Zameen can mean plot of land so it could work but since we haven't had a settler streak yet since independence a concept like lebensraum has not materialised yet. This Twitter user is an outlier even within the spectrum of deranged Hindu fascists. That's not to say that racism against Africans is not common but people don't talk about randomly invading a continent that is thousands of miles away.
'zameen' means the same thing in Persian actually. I know they're basically directly related languages, but for some reason it always surprises me how many cognates there are.
because Hindi is a language based on old persian and local languages of India mainly Uttar Pradesh
From earlier زمی (zami), from Middle Persian zmyk' (zamīg, “earth”), from Proto-Iranian *jáHs (compare Northern Kurdish zevî, Northern Luri زمی (zemi), Avestan 𐬰𐬃 (zā̊)), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *ȷ́ʰžʰáHs (compare Sanskrit क्ष (kṣa)), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *dʰéǵʰōm (compare Russian земля́ (zemljá), Latvian zeme, Latin humus, Ancient Greek χθών (khthṓn)).
apparently so, that's pretty cool.
on the other hand, Persian and my language use a lot of Russian loan-words too
No, it wasn't the Persians, as "Persian" wasn't even a thing during Proto-Indo-European times. It's similar to calling them "Russians" or "Germans" or "Swedes"
Oh Aryans? I think these words were introduced by Aryan migration into India.
"Aryan" is kinda a loaded term, ever since a certain Austrian painter used it for his racial propaganda
not Hindi but in Dravidian languages it'll sound loosely like
"Jeevna Jaga"
