you love to see it
I still have zero idea about whether any of these groups are good or not so make no value judgement but the developing story and potential IF they do turn out to be good is very interesting. I want to be optimistic but remain cautious because so far I have not seen information that feels complete enough to be trustworthy.
ill take that over the "lulz tplf lidrly state dep puppets" we got here 3 months ago 👏
nvm thats under here too
Can’t talk about Ethiopia without understanding the history of tensions between the different ethnic groups. TPLF lead a minority one party rule for decades and oppressed the Oromo majority population. They aren’t good or a stand in for “the people”.
" i soaked up a btnews polemic and am therefore literally god"
Love to stan ethnic cleansing proxies supported by the state department over...check notes democratically elected milquetoast liberal despised by DC
everything you said is completely wrong! abiy isnt democratically elected, he was pushed up in an intraparty faciton struggle and then crushed any resistance before the sham election. tigray is being cleansed. by the gov. hello??? abiy is not despised by DC lol. pushback for starting a war is one thing, getting a nobel prize another
Tigray forces literally started the war by invading non-Tigray lands and massacring entire villages, there was no genocide of Tigrayans considering even Eritrea is backing the Ethiopian government on this one
intraparty faciton struggle
Yeah that struggle being kicking out the ethnocentric pro-US party that's been in power for over 40 years
abiy is not despised by DC lol pushback for starting a war is one thing, getting a nobel prize another
Imao, I'm sorry is your definition of "pushback" getting couped by a bunch of marauding ethnic cleansers, in that case I'd hate to see what happens when he gets on America's bad side
how can you be this out of touch i jsut dont understand.
Tigray forces literally started the war by invading non-Tigray lands and massacring entire villages, there was no genocide of Tigrayans considering even Eritrea is backing the Ethiopian government on this one
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tplf ambushed a gov outpost, sure. but abiy declared war and launched a full scale invasion. cmon man
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if you didnt commit to be as incapusalted as possible you'd see the ethiopiamap compilation of satellite photos showing wholescale razing of villages in tigray. tplf massacring villages? thats you drinking fucking coolaid.
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why on earth would eritrea be an arbiter when they are an invading party in the region. hello?
Yeah that struggle being kicking out the ethnocentric pro-US party that’s been in power for over 40 years
there is no way to argue that the gov was us-centric in 2018. they were firmly in the china axis. good job again
I’m sorry is your definition of “pushback” getting couped by a bunch of marauding ethnic cleansers
its just profoundly racist and arrogant to chalk the dynamics of this conflict up as purely an expression of american interest. the pushback isnt the existence of tplf and local dynamics and interest. the pushback is diplomats and ngos and all that saying what they're saying. plus a couple rounds of sactions which is.. whatever, i dont agree with sanctions but you're getting this inbelievable wrong. fucking disgusting that you try to twist this around as the rebels being the ones doing the cleansing. and thats not to say that i reject the credible reports of tplf abuses which are horrible. its war and its messy so its your job to be nuanced. so, holy shit dude read one non-comform account of the conflict i beg you
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"telling me I'm repeating imperial narratives means that you think you are god"
crrrrringe
Idk about Ahmed but TPLF are awful
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ethiopia-survivors-tplf-attack-amhara-describe-gang-rape-looting-and-physicalI ignore amnesty international when it comes to AES countries, why should we not ignore them when it comes to this topic?
They are an NGO that aligns itself with the US and NED (cia) happily lists them as an org doing the kind of work they want and like (politically motivated activity to achieve US imperialism allied liberal-democracy around the world).
On Bolivia? Look at this shit:
Amnesty International said in a statement that Anez’s arrest, coupled with a decision to throw out any pending cases against members of the ruling socialist party, represented the continuation of a decades-long “crisis of impunity” in Bolivia.
On Cuba? This shit.
And don't get me started on Venezuela.
I agree, but it's hard enough to get news out of Ethiopia, and Amnesty has reports condemning both sides. Same goes for Reuters, a totally captive organization. In spite of their obvious biases, it's not true that everything they say is false. I would not describe Ethiopia as AES though, not since decades ago
Amnesty ALWAYS has reports condemning both sides to maintain some sort of air that they're not US "democracy" imperialism aligned but anything in the other direction is always said in a quiet voice(and doesn't spread to media) while everything in favour of whatever is in the interests of the US and imperialism is said in a loud voice and churned out in industrial quantities.
I'm not describing Ethiopia as AES, I'm describing these factions in an ongoing war with unreliable propaganda as maybe socialist and that I'm not willing to condemn them on the word of imperialists and bourgeoise press.
I just don't trust any of this shit. And the conditions of a literal ongoing war create a fog of war that make it even harder to trust any sources of information at all. I feel like I won't be able to untangle this with any certainty until the dust settles.
I just don’t trust any of this shit. And the conditions of a literal ongoing war create a fog of war that make it even harder to trust any sources of information at all.
That's definitely a real problem, and then you have to rely on random twitter accts that might be untrustworthy and can't really be used as evidence in a politicized internet discussion like this thread. I will say that I think the evidence is strong that the TPLF are not good guys and there seems to be more of a bias in their favor, strongest evidence of this being the NATO commander's propaganda in Bloomberg
I agree, though I'm not sure that it's evidence in either direction. "cause" is interesting for an ex-nato commander to be using to describe them, to me this word implies ideological underpinnings to the motivations.
I think the biggest thing that is swaying me back in their favour though seems to be where Eritrea is going in all this. They have some dodgy stuff going on but I think we can at least agree on some sort of critical support for them and they seem to be taking deniable activities via infiltrators and saboteurs to support TPLF.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-slaps-sanctions-on-eritrea-military-ruling-party-for-interference-in-ethiopia-2608877
More interesting is the phrase "offer aid to the civilian population as an incentive for a cease-fire.” In what world does offering aid to civilians end the shooting? Only in the world where NATO is trying to paint the TPLF as "the civilians" or "the masses."
Alternate interpretation: Or a world where the civilians are joining some militia/army because the circumstances are driving them to do so.
In the circumstances where an army's human resources are coming from people in terrible material conditions it only makes sense to me that preventing the growth of those human resources would come from providing aid and feeding the people that are potential recruits for that army. A humanitarian crisis and famine would definitely drive people toward taking up arms if a ready source of those arms is available. This seems like a more material analysis.
I mean, that's exactly what they are asking you to think about the TPLF, that they are some necessary ad-hoc force of the people's will against the cruel regime, despite ruling as a single-party state in Ethiopia for decades. In any case, there's no such thing as giving aid to the civilians in a war and not the combatants who control territory and resources.
Fair. So what the fuck are Eritrea doing supposedly supporting US compradors on their doorstep then?
I don't know. They seem to be way better than the TPLF, or used to be. Maybe just a long friendly history and adjacency to northern Ethiopia, where the TPLF are IIRC
I don't think that's the whole story here. They wouldn't be helping them if they didn't see some sort of either strategic or ideological benefit to themselves. I don't buy "oh they've been buds for a while so they're willing to die" as a particularly good reason.
I think you're right, I'm just making guesses. Things look messy and it's hard to get good information from English speaking sources. Syria was like that for a very long time
Syria was like that for a very long time
Yep fog of war was very strong. I still remember what a mess trying to point out how sus Assad's "gas attacks" were supposed to be, now thoroughly debunked of course but at the time it caused serious arguments among the left.
The ENDF is legit genocidal and are guilty of just as many if not more war crimes than the rebels. It's dirty war no doubt but the EDF is intentionally causing a famine in the rebel lands to try to starve out the rebel population. It's hard to see the situation getting better through war tbh but Ahmed is really awful.
Well FWIW, he can't be bad enough for me to *pick a side in this conflict between awful groups
the ENDF also commits war rape, but does so systematically against women of these ethnic minorities, and also guilty of many other atrocities like sexual slavery and mutilation. It's likely the soldiers were either ordered to do these things or given assurances by higher ups that they would look the other way.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/08/ethiopia-troops-and-militia-rape-abduct-women-and-girls-in-tigray-conflict-new-report/
I don't like trying to compare war crimes but to me it seems the Ethiopian Federal Forces commit these acts more often, with genocidal intent and systemically. It is a bad situation down there for civilians.
Sure, you don't have to pick a side. But the OP presented the TPLF as "the masses rising up" and that's not true at all
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-11-11/ethiopia-s-civil-war-is-a-problem-u-s-troops-can-help-solve
Look at the Ex-NATO Supreme Allied Commander telling the US that we need to intervene, and notice the caption : "Rebels with a cause." Objectively false; hardly 'rebels,' the TPLF were in power for decades until ousted by an election that they didn't like. "Cause" implies some noble deed beyond occupation through rape and violence. The ex-NATO commander says we should sanction the Ethiopian government and offer aid to "the civilian population as an incentive for a cease-fire," which must refer to the TPLF, who are combatants.
And I am not supporting Ahmed by pointing this stuff outwhat is this fed shit? The Ex-NATO Supreme Allied Commander thinks its good to send US troops there? LMAO get the fuck out of here with that imperialist nonsense :cia: can't even read it because it's paywalled but whatever side NATO supports I oppose
I hope you realize that I'm saying that because NATO is so opposed to the Ethiopian government, we should be suspicious of all this pro-TPLF nonsense.
This is one of the most interesting sources I've seen and that phrase choice is fascinating.
I still don't understand this conflict. Which side does the US support?
https://www.spreaker.com/user/radiosputnik/ethiopia-conflict-escalates-miscarriages @9:30 some explanation from Bob Schlehuber from Political Misfits, start here maybe
