As a former troop… I struggle immensely with this. Yes of course our actions in places like Vietnam were genocide and cleansing. But the framing/lying about these actions and the brainwashing of soldiers leaves me confused. Maybe it is because I went through it and have seen how/why people join in the first place, and even I had no idea the magnitude of my actions until years after, and I still struggle immensely to the point of 3 suicide attempts.
How do we know if troops are redeemed? Can we fully be? I try to do work in a communist party here and work within the veterans commission to reach out to others, but is there a point sometimes?
Of course there will be veterans who do see the error of their ways and do become active comrades. And you are. But as far as the general approach ,rhetoric and mindset of the movement regarding any and all active or former boots on the ground troops goes, it shouldnt be one of not highlighting and prioritizing their participatation in war crimes and crimes against humanity. The feelings,experiences and outlook of the hundreds of millions of victims of the actions that group has been the perpetrator off on the ground shapes the worldwide proletarian movement , even if the end result are the baseline being hate and rejecting those active or former troops . Exactly just as the feelings of the black,poor and indigenous victims of a police state domesticaly in the US and in every country unavoidably shapes the outlook and extremely slim margins of "acceptance" of these movements for active and former cops.
Also former troop here. I find it difficult to look back on the decision to join and judge myself too harshly just for the fact that I'm not sure how else I would have known it was a terrible idea without the benefit of hindsight. I joined shortly after 9/11 and genuinely thought it was a noble thing with the knowledge I had at the time. Once I did realize it was a huge mistake, I ended up getting myself booted out and have zero regrets about that of course. Not sure if you see it the same way, but I feel like there's kind of a weird American thing to reduce "the troops" to a political symbol so that people tend to paint every single one as either a hero or war criminal based only on what they represent, as opposed to how an individual decided on a course of action with the knowledge and experience they have when confronted with a moral/ethical choice. This, imo is really what we should be concerned with, and if there are regrets for decisions based on a genuine lack of understanding, all you can really do is process what you've learned and use it to make better decisions going forward and this really goes for anything in life.
Reading over this again, it might be just a more convoluted version of what Skoubalon said, but I hope it's helpful and makes some sense.
Also, related, I feel like we (leftist vets) could do a lot of good with the knowledge and experience we have as far as countering the propaganda that once convinced us, and this includes going after recruiters on social media. I have some ideas on this if you ever want to discuss.
I feel like we (leftist vets) could do a lot of good with the knowledge and experience we have as far as countering the propaganda that once convinced us
That's why I admire the folks on the What A Hell Of A Way To Die podcast, their primary intent is to convince people not to join the military. That said I'm sure you have some other knowledge and experience that might be useful in the coming years.
Yeah I posted some diy stuff back when the site* was first starting out I should get back on that, also reminder that most of our military training material is available free online because it is publicly funded and a lot of it has practical applications outside war/combat.
let's not forget the bolsheviks were radicalised at the front (i'm talking rank and file not leaders), obviously if you were not drafted there will always be that confusion but think proactively, to avoid another 1919 in Germany and that should be more than enouh cosmic redemption
There is a point in your case, but none at all in doing Nazi apologia and calling opposition to that "tryhard". If you called people who refused to join the military when you did tryhards even after you knew it was wrong, that would be a different story entirely. SDF refused to self-crit, you are here BECAUSE you self-crit
As a former troop… I struggle immensely with this. Yes of course our actions in places like Vietnam were genocide and cleansing. But the framing/lying about these actions and the brainwashing of soldiers leaves me confused. Maybe it is because I went through it and have seen how/why people join in the first place, and even I had no idea the magnitude of my actions until years after, and I still struggle immensely to the point of 3 suicide attempts.
How do we know if troops are redeemed? Can we fully be? I try to do work in a communist party here and work within the veterans commission to reach out to others, but is there a point sometimes?
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Of course there will be veterans who do see the error of their ways and do become active comrades. And you are. But as far as the general approach ,rhetoric and mindset of the movement regarding any and all active or former boots on the ground troops goes, it shouldnt be one of not highlighting and prioritizing their participatation in war crimes and crimes against humanity. The feelings,experiences and outlook of the hundreds of millions of victims of the actions that group has been the perpetrator off on the ground shapes the worldwide proletarian movement , even if the end result are the baseline being hate and rejecting those active or former troops . Exactly just as the feelings of the black,poor and indigenous victims of a police state domesticaly in the US and in every country unavoidably shapes the outlook and extremely slim margins of "acceptance" of these movements for active and former cops.
Also former troop here. I find it difficult to look back on the decision to join and judge myself too harshly just for the fact that I'm not sure how else I would have known it was a terrible idea without the benefit of hindsight. I joined shortly after 9/11 and genuinely thought it was a noble thing with the knowledge I had at the time. Once I did realize it was a huge mistake, I ended up getting myself booted out and have zero regrets about that of course. Not sure if you see it the same way, but I feel like there's kind of a weird American thing to reduce "the troops" to a political symbol so that people tend to paint every single one as either a hero or war criminal based only on what they represent, as opposed to how an individual decided on a course of action with the knowledge and experience they have when confronted with a moral/ethical choice. This, imo is really what we should be concerned with, and if there are regrets for decisions based on a genuine lack of understanding, all you can really do is process what you've learned and use it to make better decisions going forward and this really goes for anything in life.
Reading over this again, it might be just a more convoluted version of what Skoubalon said, but I hope it's helpful and makes some sense.
Also, related, I feel like we (leftist vets) could do a lot of good with the knowledge and experience we have as far as countering the propaganda that once convinced us, and this includes going after recruiters on social media. I have some ideas on this if you ever want to discuss.
That's why I admire the folks on the What A Hell Of A Way To Die podcast, their primary intent is to convince people not to join the military. That said I'm sure you have some other knowledge and experience that might be useful in the coming years.
I’ve heard of that podcast but never really listened to it. I’ll have to check that out. Seems like exactly the kind of thing I’d be into.
The most useful knowledge I have honestly is the kind of fun stuff I like to post in the diy comm.
Yeah I posted some diy stuff back when the site* was first starting out I should get back on that, also reminder that most of our military training material is available free online because it is publicly funded and a lot of it has practical applications outside war/combat.
let's not forget the bolsheviks were radicalised at the front (i'm talking rank and file not leaders), obviously if you were not drafted there will always be that confusion but think proactively, to avoid another 1919 in Germany and that should be more than enouh cosmic redemption
There is a point in your case, but none at all in doing Nazi apologia and calling opposition to that "tryhard". If you called people who refused to join the military when you did tryhards even after you knew it was wrong, that would be a different story entirely. SDF refused to self-crit, you are here BECAUSE you self-crit