Stuff like "stupid, idiot, moron, dumb," you know the ones. If you’re insulting someone for their shitty garbage beliefs and all you can manage to come up with is ways to insult their intelligence, appearance, or other aspect about them that has nothing to do with their cruelty and shittyness, you should maybe reevaluate.
Just saw a thread on here where a user was stubbornly refusing to adjust their language when another user politely pointed out that it was harmful to our comrades as well, and the person refusing was massively upvoted and the comrade trying to explain why it was harmful was downvoted. Thought we were better than that
I'm not calling anyone out, just wanted to make a post explaining my feelings on it and that when stuff like that happens (not the intelligence based insults, I know its hard to switch, but getting insulted for asking people to avoid them) it hurts and makes me feel less welcome here </3
Using words like “You’re being ignorant” or “That’s a cruel belief” is actually more effective than just going “lmao idiot”.
If those are the words you actually mean to convey I'd say use them instead :)
Edit: if the reception this post got isn't a good proof that this is something this community needs to grapple with, I don't know what is.
Sorry I maybe skipped a few steps in my logic.
SenoraRaton claimed that insults like "stupid" aren't slurs because they're "terms in general usage in the English language" and are "Not directed at any marginalized group".
Many slurs have been and are in general usage in the "English Language" and so this can easily be used as a generic defense of slurs. More generally, it implicitly argues that we cannot or should not attempt to change the english language as it's generally used provides no explanation for why. Which lead me to criticise it as implicitly saying "this is the way things are and we can’t change the way things are", which is an inherently conservative and reactionary idea.
The second part of my post is attempting to push back against the idea that people with below average intelligence or perceived to have below average intelligence aren't marginalised on this basis. Being born with above average intelligence inherently makes you more powerful than if you'd been born with below average intelligence. Additionally in our society people with above average intelligence or who are perceived to have above average intelligence are often made to feel special and valued for this while people with below average intelligence or who are perceived to have below average intelligence are often shamed for this. This especially applies to children in school, a formative situation almost everyone in our society experiences and one in which we are particularly vulnerable.
I said this could also be a generic defence of slurs as groups which are clearly marginalised are often falsely claimed not to be marginalised.
Are you trying to say that people with below average intelligence aren't a "group" of people?
“Stupid” and “moron” do not refer to any group of people, marginalized or otherwise. Anybody can make stupid arguments, like you’re doing now. The president of the United States is a fucking idiot and also the most powerful man in the world, in fact many of the people that lord over us are utter morons. Many stupid people are stupid basically by choice, they choose to act like asshats and refuse to learn things. The word does not refer to actual learning disabilities. It’s absolutely not a slur.
Obama was also president of the United States.
There are many powerful jews.
That doesn't make the N or K word not slurs.
There are people who will say the N word only applies to black people who steal or act "like thugs" or the K word only applies to jews who "are greedy". You're saying you only mean to use intelligence based slurs against people who "are choosing to be stupid" and not people with "actual learning disabilities".
Some people are born more intelligent than others. These people have a genuine disadvantage going into life and are also socially and sometimes systematically discriminated against on the basis of this. This discrimination can get worse when it's caused by a specific factor or just severe enough to get diagnosed but does not only occur against people who were diagnosed.
Intelligence based slurs are putting the person you're using that slur against in this group and saying it's a bad thing.
No, I didn’t say that. Stupid as a word does not refer to people with disabilities or whatever the fuck you think, you’re just flat out wrong.
Stupid as a word is a slur that says the person you're using the slur against is less intelligent than other people.
No, it isn’t.
stupid /ˈstjuːpɪd/ Learn to pronounce adjective adjective: stupid; comparative adjective: stupider; superlative adjective: stupidest
Right, like the argument you are making now is stupid.
so when you call a person stupid you are saying that they _____?
This is getting beyond outrageous, those words ARE slurs because they refer to oppressed racial and ethnic groups, stupid is not a fucking slur, holy shit. You’re venturing into extremely offensive and insensitive territory yourself trying to draw an equivalence.
There are oppressed intersectional groups which are not ethnic or racial. Less intelligent people are one of them.
Meritocracy, the lie used to justify capitalism in the Anglosphere, is inherently discriminatory against the less able and in particular the less intelligent. People who are seen as intelligent are thought to be deserving of power and luxury while people who are seen as unintelligent are said to be deserving of drudgery and misery. Historically, many other prejudices and unjust systems of oppression have been justified on similar intelligence based rhetoric.
Almost every Eugenics movement ever has identified the elimination of less intelligent people as one of its primary goals. At the peak of Eugenicist ideas popularity many states sterilised people they saw as severely mentally deficent and it's a view still held by many today. How many times have you heard or read edgy fuckers saying the world would be so much better if people with below x IQ or a group who are perceived as less intelligent were all dead/ weren't allowed to hold power? It's sometimes a dogwhistle for other prejudices, but not always, and it's often comorbid with those other prejudices.
Right now in schools all over the anglosphere children perceived as unintelligent are shamed for not learning fast enough and told they're worth less and will have lower social status than more intelligent children. This often has horrific effects on their development.
In general conversation "You're stupid", and, when targeted at someone who has internalised or is often told that they're lesser because they're unintelligent "That's a stupid idea" are often used to shut that person out of the discussion, to say they're too unintelligent to properly address the topic and should give up on trying, not trust their own judgement, and instead listen to and uncritically accept what the person telling them they're stupid is saying. If they've been shamed enough this social bludgeon will often work, and people perceived as "less intelligent" will be afforded less of a platform and less ability to self advocate because of this.
Is this not discrimination?
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Your argument doesn’t make any sense. You’re arguing that some people actually are stupid but that the word itself just shouldn’t be used because it hurts feelings or has these other harmful effects, but to just stop using a word that is an accurate description of reality would require one to either just entirely stop talking about that aspect of reality, or substitute a different word, which would only take on the same negative connotation and have the same effects. The first is obviously impossible and the second is entirely pointless and makes this whole argument a colossal waste of time and energy.
If a phrase
such as forced sterilisation and furthering inequality.
It's not just about the slur, it's about not discriminating along those lines. Ceasing to believe the lie of capitalist meritocracy that people who are more able should have more and people who are less able should have less, and stopping shaming and discriminating against people for being less able
No, I don’t. I don’t think that using the word “stupid” is discriminatory or furthering systems of oppression.
It’s not about any slur because the word “stupid” is not a slur.
"Stupid" is a word used to shame and discriminate against people for something about them that is inborn and often can't be changed to a significant extent. It shames other people who maybe don't match the definition by claiming they do. It's absolutely a slur.
This is fundamentally, to me, about from each to each.
Just because people are less able does not mean they should have less
Additionally, as I said higher up in the thread