Yea i dont think you would be able to change people's consumption in the same way you can convince them being fucked over by capitalism.
Meat exactly isn't a "luxury" good either. Even the poor in the global south occasionally consume meat. People don't have the same concern for animals (that arent considered pets) being abused and killed compared to humans.
I put it in a similar but not the same box as religion. I wish people were less braindead when it comes to certain aspects of religion. Idk how a person can be fucked over a million times and still believe that God is good and has their best interests in mind.
More than occasionally, just look at the "hard body" chicken market in most townships and informal settlements in South Africa. Meat might as well be a religion in this country, and chicken is eaten so much I swear some consider it a staple or vegetable.
I could probably go on Facebook and buy a freshly slaughtered and cleaned chicken, with feet, neck and organs, right now if I had a Facebook account or wanted to do such lmao. The going rate for this is around R70 per chicken, that's 3.5 US Dollars I think.
People have no idea how wild stuff is in the third world/global south. Facebook marketplace and WhatsApp can get you pretty much anything you want, legal or illegal. The only global south countries that are strict with this social media stuff similar to a global north/first world level, are, ironically, the communist ones like Cuba. I know a bunch of cigar resellers in Cuba got busted after a South African travel influencer posted them to Facebook live.
chicken is eaten so much I swear some consider it a vegetable
More than once I've been given a "vegetarian" option that is either chicken or turkey, lmao. A bunch of "vegetarian" dishes in restaurants use chicken or fish broth or components, too.
That must suck lol. Also a lot of animal fat is used in frying, I think McDonalds fries/chips are the most infamous example.
But yeah at a braai/barbecue/cookout I've asked for salads, and people would jokingly point towards the chicken wings before directing me towards the actual salads.
Mcdonalds fries in the USA are vegetarian, but not vegan. They have "natural beef flavor" made from wheat and milk derivatives. They stopped using beef tallow to fry in the 90s when trans fats were banned.
Pretty much every living thing on this planet is an omnivore if they're hungry. Unless someone's living conditions allow for it, they will not become vegan. There's a reason that dog meat only became morally questionable in China after the nation industrialized.
An example that goes against this is India, where they still don't have a massive surplus of food, but still widely are vegetarian. However, Hindu/Buddhist thought in India didn't start moving towards vegetarianism until around 400BCE-200CE, when India had one of most prosperous economies in the world and they were urbanizing. So even in the case of a major religious shift like what happened in India, the only way diets change is by different things being more available.
its not really just hunger, sure Chicken is a cheap form of meat but as @aaaaaaadjsf mentioned, it goes beyond just hunger and more of a treat. Obviously, people in global south don't have the purchasing power to consume copious amounts of meat like Liver King or whatever does.
Also, India being vegetarian is not completely accurate, whether one consumes meat depends on their caste and even many of the so called 'upper' caste people consume meat (except for beef).
I think the first step is to start teaching children about animal welfare and how animals are mistreated in school.
It's not hunger as in "people starving", it's hunger in the sense of not being constantly anxious over where your next meal comes from. As long as people do not have the cognitive space to even think about changing their food, they probably won't. I'd include America in this statement about "vegetarianism" won't become a majority without living condition changes".
This is true, India is very socially complex. However, something I see in India that I haven't really seen elsewhere is how big they are on being vegetarian. People in India aren't all forced to be vegetarians, many are very proud of being vegetarian because the major religions of the nation all say something about killing animals, like even Muslims have Halal meat rules. There's been a discourse there for thousands of years in that culture that has made people want to be vegetarians. With 30-40 percent of the nation identifying themselves as vegetarian, they are a functionally vegetarian nation.
You are right though, we need to teach children to think about animal welfare more.
but as @aaaaaaadjsf mentioned, it goes beyond just hunger and more of a treat.
The day South Africans realise our processed meat heavy, and simple carbohydrate heavy diet of vleis and pap, is giving us cancer and diabetes, is the day this country collapses lol. People here love our simple food treats here way too much. A bodybuilder over here went viral for trying to lose their abs over Christmas dinner by just eating everything and anything.
Yea i dont think you would be able to change people's consumption in the same way you can convince them being fucked over by capitalism.
Meat exactly isn't a "luxury" good either. Even the poor in the global south occasionally consume meat. People don't have the same concern for animals (that arent considered pets) being abused and killed compared to humans.
I put it in a similar but not the same box as religion. I wish people were less braindead when it comes to certain aspects of religion. Idk how a person can be fucked over a million times and still believe that God is good and has their best interests in mind.
In Amerikkka it’s cheaper to get edible meat / carbs than it is to get edible vegetables
In Amerikkka it's cheaper to eat the unhoused
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CW: meat
More than occasionally, just look at the "hard body" chicken market in most townships and informal settlements in South Africa. Meat might as well be a religion in this country, and chicken is eaten so much I swear some consider it a staple or vegetable.
I could probably go on Facebook and buy a freshly slaughtered and cleaned chicken, with feet, neck and organs, right now if I had a Facebook account or wanted to do such lmao. The going rate for this is around R70 per chicken, that's 3.5 US Dollars I think.
People have no idea how wild stuff is in the third world/global south. Facebook marketplace and WhatsApp can get you pretty much anything you want, legal or illegal. The only global south countries that are strict with this social media stuff similar to a global north/first world level, are, ironically, the communist ones like Cuba. I know a bunch of cigar resellers in Cuba got busted after a South African travel influencer posted them to Facebook live.
More than once I've been given a "vegetarian" option that is either chicken or turkey, lmao. A bunch of "vegetarian" dishes in restaurants use chicken or fish broth or components, too.
That must suck lol. Also a lot of animal fat is used in frying, I think McDonalds fries/chips are the most infamous example.
But yeah at a braai/barbecue/cookout I've asked for salads, and people would jokingly point towards the chicken wings before directing me towards the actual salads.
Mcdonalds fries in the USA are vegetarian, but not vegan. They have "natural beef flavor" made from wheat and milk derivatives. They stopped using beef tallow to fry in the 90s when trans fats were banned.
https://www.rd.com/article/mcdonalds-fries-ingredients/
isn't that some weird catholic thing where meat only means beef and pork?
Pretty much every living thing on this planet is an omnivore if they're hungry. Unless someone's living conditions allow for it, they will not become vegan. There's a reason that dog meat only became morally questionable in China after the nation industrialized.
An example that goes against this is India, where they still don't have a massive surplus of food, but still widely are vegetarian. However, Hindu/Buddhist thought in India didn't start moving towards vegetarianism until around 400BCE-200CE, when India had one of most prosperous economies in the world and they were urbanizing. So even in the case of a major religious shift like what happened in India, the only way diets change is by different things being more available.
its not really just hunger, sure Chicken is a cheap form of meat but as @aaaaaaadjsf mentioned, it goes beyond just hunger and more of a treat. Obviously, people in global south don't have the purchasing power to consume copious amounts of meat like Liver King or whatever does.
Also, India being vegetarian is not completely accurate, whether one consumes meat depends on their caste and even many of the so called 'upper' caste people consume meat (except for beef).
I think the first step is to start teaching children about animal welfare and how animals are mistreated in school.
It's not hunger as in "people starving", it's hunger in the sense of not being constantly anxious over where your next meal comes from. As long as people do not have the cognitive space to even think about changing their food, they probably won't. I'd include America in this statement about "vegetarianism" won't become a majority without living condition changes".
This is true, India is very socially complex. However, something I see in India that I haven't really seen elsewhere is how big they are on being vegetarian. People in India aren't all forced to be vegetarians, many are very proud of being vegetarian because the major religions of the nation all say something about killing animals, like even Muslims have Halal meat rules. There's been a discourse there for thousands of years in that culture that has made people want to be vegetarians. With 30-40 percent of the nation identifying themselves as vegetarian, they are a functionally vegetarian nation.
You are right though, we need to teach children to think about animal welfare more.
The day South Africans realise our processed meat heavy, and simple carbohydrate heavy diet of vleis and pap, is giving us cancer and diabetes, is the day this country collapses lol. People here love our simple food treats here way too much. A bodybuilder over here went viral for trying to lose their abs over Christmas dinner by just eating everything and anything.
deleted by creator