Mocking antivaxxers is not punching down when their decisions and actions are literally murdering people.
Antivaxxers are participating in a systemic genocide of marginalized people, the working class, and the immuno-compromised.
In a perfect world, these ideas wouldn't have spread to begin with. In a still better world than we have right now, we'd have mass re-education programs.
Instead we have a global pandemic made worse by a murder cult.
:bugs-no: Nobody deserves to die because they got taken in by grifters.
Also even if they have other reactionary beliefs criticize that and not punch down on misguided people doing self harm because they are alienated by a predatory health care system.
It is not self harm. Please re-evaluate this take. Self harm is tragic, but self-contained. People refusing to participate in public health measures that save the lives of marginalized people, healthcare workers, and the immuno-compromised is social murder.
My mom's an antivaxxer I have basically disowned her but I don't think she should die.
I think she should be bullied and I call her out every time she tries to make contact but I don't wish death on her
There we go. I get why you have that perspective then. I hope your mom survives this. My aunt didn't even though she tried to.
I had to get my own vaccinations for regular shit after I turned 18. Antivaxx shit predates its modern incarnation and there's a bit more to it than I think a lot of younger people understand. Jenny McCarthy didn't start this shit.
How do you reconcile saying "everyone who believes this shit deserves to die" AND "I hope your mom survives this?"
There's a dynamic in groups where people try to find their place in them by appraising where the direction of the group is and trying to place yourself out in front. I think that's something pretty common on this board and that this thread is an example.
I have had two people I love who were immuno compromised die from antivaxxers who believed shit like this.
One of them had survived the AIDS epidemic and she had also gotten vaccunated despite the potential risks to her health as someone with a weakened immune system. Even then, she still couldn't fend off covid and the huge rate of antivaxxers in her neighborhood.
I want these monsters to self-immolate for what they are doing. The leaders perpetuating it and the members of this murder cult.
This is where I take issue with this, there is a difference between a snake oil salesman and their customers.
If the customers weren't murdering people by choosing to become walking pathogen diffusers, then yes.
Example: I feel sadness for anyone choosing homeopathy over actual medical treatments like chemo. That is preventable death and devastating.
My boyfriend lost a family member this way because the person thought they could combine homeopathy and prayer to cure their cancer. That was a tragedy, but it was self-contained.
This is the same phenomenon though, the people that bought into homeopathy also tend to be anti-vaxx
Trust me I fight with these people on a daily basis because of my job and I feel you, but I don't want them to die. I want the people that taught them their bullshit to die.
What do you do when one of them teaches someone desperate and "converts" them? Is that person now on the death list? Most antivaxxers are incessantly trying to spread their beliefs.
Bully them. Don't engage with them, ostracize them and isolate them. Until we can have actual humane reeducation centers there's no other option.
Believe me, I do. Part of how I do that is actively mocking the ones who die.
That's punching down still, unless it's someone who has actual power.
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I'm not defending them, I'm just saying people don't deserve to die just for being gullible.
Most antivaxxers are violent and ideologically committed to their project. Going out in public without a mask right now is violence. Not social distancing right now is violence.
I work in a grocery store and I have people like this intentionally move around the barrier in place of the register because they find it in insulting and want to virtue signal they're owning the libs.
I agree but they don't understand this. We are operating from a totally different perspective, theirs is wrong but it's not deserving of a death sentence.
I also work in a grocery store, when people do shit like that I confront them and I don't mince words.
Some are just reactionaries some are dumbfuck hippies. All of them are in some way victims of material conditions even the worst ones. Sure if someone got physical I would have no qualms beating the shit out of them but they do not deserve death for being victims of the US propaganda machine unless they're also Nazis or some shit.
I do not care they don't understand this in the same way I don't care a nazi, a racist, or a transphobe doesn't understand they are bigotted and evil.
Antivaxxers have their identity wrapped up in this shit to the point they cannot be educated. I am powerless to do anything to stop them and the government supports their beliefs through inaction.
I can watch in horror as they insist on spreading this virus and I can cheer when they destroy themselves. The sooner an antivaxxer changes their mind or dies, we all become a little safer.
There aren't a lot of antivaxxers changing their mind now. The couple I know who have I don't judge anymore. They came around early on, though. The lines are pretty drawn in their minds and that is not something I can change.
Then I don't understand how or why you have compassion for them. They want to kill us. Is this how you rationalize dealing with them every day without becoming aggressive? I understand it's exhausting, but I can't do that.
I do get aggressive lol.
There's a video circulating right now of me that probably is going to end up on public freakout or something because one of those dipshits recorded me aggressively removing them from my store.
I will fucking fight these people, I still do not believe they deserve death
Look I get it I feel much the same way but I take issue with saying they deserve death.
Unless they're also fascists they do not deserve death.
Maybe my response is just wanting them to go away then and realizing the only way that seems to happen is when enough of the motivated ones die that they become less common.
A massive amount of them very much are. These are also the same people who would/ will happily try to murder me when the Amerikan state balkanizes.
As an anarchist I can recognize the necessity of reeducation in certain circumstances precisely because I don't believe in just killing people for being wrong. We only have two options there.
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You'd be surprised how many of them are liberals and even people you might think are leftists.
This is a huge blind spot apparently on this site. Tons of people that aren't straight up reactionaries are getting taken in by this shit.
The new age to Qanon pipeline
The Antifada - Q Late w/ Julian Feeld
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Of course they are but we're straying from the point here. Not all of these people deserve death. That's not materialist and borderline reactionary itself.
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That's not what the OP said though and that's what I took issue with and they're still defending that position.
I'm frustrated and talking shit. I can make caveats and carve outs all day long, but I'm tired.
This is a shitpost and having to add nuance to it is exhausting and depressing. Fuck. I'm honestly so tired of all this shit.
I will say that I tend to be pretty blunt on this because I frequently see mote hand wringing over antivaxxers with little compassion for their victims.
Whatever. I get this is a sensitive topic for you as well. I'm genuinely sorry this post upset you because we almost always agree on other shit around here.
Just like, don't say a bunch of people deserve to die for being taken in by grifters, like I hate cryptobros but they don't deserve death they're just rubes. And the same harm analogy can be made, crypto is contributing to climate apocalypse.
That doesn't mean a bunch of them don't deserve the wall for all sorts of other reasons.