Edit:
Here is a list of resources to learn about sex worker from actual sex workers who are engaged in the struggle for worker's rights:
- https://www.nswp.org/resources/types/nswp-briefing-papers-248
- https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/beyond-trafficking-and-slavery/white-mans-burden-revisited/
- https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/beyond-trafficking-and-slavery/from-brothel-to-sweatshop-questions-on-labour-trafficking-in-camb/
- https://titsandsass.com/the-massage-parlor-means-survival-here-red-canary-song-on-robert-kraft/
- https://medium.com/purplerose0666/the-af3irm-agenda-b5ec31216904
- https://medium.com/@katezenjoy/dear-esperanza-5aa7db4d501a
- https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/beyond-trafficking-and-slavery/decriminalising-sex-work-in-new-zealand-its-history-and-impact/
- https://www.mayamorena.com/anti-equality-model-campaign/2021/5/22/pscegcnr680fh4oazlmwe8i5527o9j
Bigger repo of theory / resources:
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oWxx3yodCJJGxTmqgCeB6csVAeRkllSQq_VUe78MJA4/view
Books to check out:
- https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36224357-sex-lies-statistics
The argument seems awfully reminiscent of the arguments that "slavery has always existed and thus it is a fool's errand to attempt to abolish it". Like yeah, slavery has existed in various forms throughout history, from "natural" slavery (slavery to nature), to chattel slavery, serfdom, and now wage slavery, but that doesn't mean that it is given. With modern technology and industry, most labour is unnecessary, shown by the widespread prevalence of "bullshit jobs". In fact, it is probable that society can be run solely off of voluntary labour (communism) TODAY, abolishing all forced labour and thus slavery.
https://therealmovement.wordpress.com/2018/03/11/communization-of-the-whole-world-in-five-years-or-less-a-practical-guide/
Ok but you realize that you're equating prostitution with slavery, which is like, the entire point of the video about how that's not fair unless you're equating all work with slavery, right?
Anyway, what about disabled people who still want to fuck? There will always be some form of sex work—whether that work is paid for by a wage or something else (social prestige, maybe?) is up for debate. Sex work is like farming. You're going to need somebody to do it in whatever society you set up.
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Maybe I want to live in a society where people are entitled to things like sex and fulfillment. That's the whole point, right? You're entitled to a house, a good life, and maybe sexual fulfillment in some form should be a part of that.
Please ask a sex worker if they think their job involves getting raped every time they work. You're doing the very thing the video this post is about said not to do. Sex workers aren't stupid, they know what they're doing, and it's just labor.
Likewise re: the prestige point, you realize that even in a classless, money-less society there's still going to be hierarchy and people doing stuff for prestige and social standing, right? Some people want to fuck celebrities, even ones that aren't "hot", because of the story. Is that rape? If somebody wants to fuck somebody else that they don't find attractive but because it will bring them respect, is that rape either? At a certain point you just have to let people do what they want, and stop calling all things related to sex that aren't strictly romantic relationships or lust "rape."
No one is or should be entitled to sex. A fulfilling life doesn't require sex. This is just gross
I'm not wording this correctly, I guess. I'm not saying people are entitled to sex. I'm saying that I think we should strive towards a society where if somebody wants sexual fulfillment there are more than enough avenues to get it, much in the same way we should structure a society for intellectual fulfillment and social fulfillment.
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I think your wording it fine. If people want to consent to doing a job, they should be able to do that.
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Ok fair, definitely do not mean it in that way. Just trying to convey that in a utopic society that we're aiming for I don't think it's ridiculous to try and set up a society in which all needs, including sexual fulfillment, can be catered to. Not trying to force anybody into sex work or something like that.
Of course! In the utopic society it is best that everyone has sex, enjoyment, etc... What I take issue is the suggestion that people should be coerced into giving said sex, enjoyment...
Yes, I'm not saying people should be coerced. But I do think that a world where sex work as a public service or good, and something that brings prestige and increased social standing, isn't something out of the question or "bad" in any sense. I don't think doing something partially because of increased social standing is coercion, since that'll always happen. Some members of a community will always be looked up to, and will do things because they want to be looked up to. Tying that to sex work certainly wouldn't be the worst.
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Stop shouting
There are people who are professional masseuses and professional therapists so why not allow people to be professional sexy-time people.
Fucking thank you for this.
Edit: My only suggestion would be to rephrase your example of people with disabilities as it could be taken as ableist.
:sankara-salute: Quite a struggle session you've constructed here, comrade. Seems like there's still a fair bit of Puritanical brainworms around sex on this forum!
I told @Nakoichi this would trigger some reactionaries. Didn't anticipate it would have this much of an impact.
:oh-shit:
It's been a while since we had a struggle session of this magnitude tbh, so it was time. Surprised at the views that are getting upvoted a lot in this thread though.
Patriarchy and cultural Christianity are a blight.
Just wait until we get to the outdoor cat sex work struggle session.
Excuse me, what?
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In that scenario, there would still be people who want to have sex / companionship, but either cannot or do not want to maintain the kind of romantic or long-term relationship with another person that is "typically" required for that. Sex work provides people with that connection.
Sure. I would hardly count sex work as a bullshit job considering it is one of the first forms of specialized labor that humans created.
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Sure, we both agree that no one should be threatened with starvation or homelessness to work.
Most sex workers chose the job they do because it is the least exploitative occupation available to them.
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Well yeah, sure. Most jobs people work are the least terrible choice they have. If everyone could get cushy tech jobs, then they would, but we all work with what we've got for now. Capitalism is hot trash.
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