Being told this is fairly reliable for info on the situation in Ukraine. let me know if it isn’t. https://liveuamap.com/ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg?pictrs
Being told this is fairly reliable for info on the situation in Ukraine. let me know if it isn’t. https://liveuamap.com/ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg?pictrs
they weren't at peace talks when the statement was released, if they sit down at the table and come out with this shit they're daft.
releasing it the the media beforehand is propaganda - really obvious propaganda. projecting strength going into the negotiations.
people on here are acting like like they've gone mad, writing about absurd Jokers who don't want peace and believe in the coming miraculous domination of their enemies.
part of spotting propaganda is knowing that the people saying it usually don't really believe it either, or are massively exaggerating a belief.
this is just totally standard doctrinaire shit for negotiating.
It doesn't project strength to the people they are negotiating with though. It is for show, not to their people or the Russians, but for NATO citizens. Member states know it is bullcrap obviously. It is nationalist madness, regardless of if the person saying it believes it. They are ordering civilians to operate as if it is true. Its not harmless sabre-rattling
I completely disagree that it's not for their own citizens, that's the main audience.
it's not madness, it's not madness when russia threaten nuclear attack when they have no plans to use them either.
it's gone well beyond sabre rattling, nobody's worried about escalating shit through words, they're in a full war.
if you think this obviously over the top media soundbite is going to be received as anything other than pablum by the russians you're wrong. it's totally irrelevant to the negotiations. imagine being in a full war for three days and then getting upset because your enemy did a press release where they exaggerated their status.
So it is just words and wont effect negotiations, also it is important because it makes them stronger in negotiations? Got it, brilliant.
What is your problem with laughing at stupid propaganda then? You tone police not being charitable enough to Ukrainian propaganda
it's important to show a brave face to your own population and your own armed forces.
if you go into a negotiation presenting anything but bare faced, insane confidence it'll be instantly spun as surrender. people don't tend to like carrying on fighting when they think their government is going to surrender at any moment.
this doesn't make them stronger in the eyes of russia in negotiations and at no point have I said it did, that's your miscomprehension.
it's a prerequisite, a thing you just have to do going into negotiations to not weaken your position.
I'm not tone policing anything, I think the way this war is being comprehended on here is getting worse and worse so I'm pushing back at things I think are wrong.
you can say what you want and I'll say what I want.
couple hours ago
you are pushing back in opposite directions. If it is a prerequisite going into negotiations "to not weaken your position" as you said, then why does it
how does that square with
What does it matter in negotiations if it only effects internal moral, which evidentially means going back to the not surrendering and having civilians die en mass plan, which btw dragging them off busses to fight sends the opposite message to the populace that the military is fine and handling it and peace talks will be with them in a dominant position.
In negotiations the citizenry is not gonna be asked how they are feeling, if they are confident. hyping up that your country will fight till the last elderly man is not effecting negotiations at all to be sure, but it also does not strengthen them going in to negotiations. You policed Redcuban in the first place, you act like it is utterly insane that people scoff at propaganda, like we are dullards for remarking on these 4d chess moves by Ukraine that we just dont respect. If it is all just for the civilians, then they are also telling them they are going to have to fight desperately and cannot be allowed to leave. It contradicts itself, and this idea that the dragging people off busses thing is just for show. Their two shows are clashing is a way that is getting people killed. That's ghoulish. I get why they are doing it, we all do. But we are mocking it as pathetic because that's what nationalism is
nope. it's coherent, you're just not following it properly
ukraine want to get the most concessions/best deal they can from any meeting
if you don't message strongly to your own forces the summit can and will be spun as surrender
ukraines forces believing that could become disheartened/abandon positions/whatever
this would weaken ukraines position in negotiations
this would stop them from getting the most beneficial deal in any negotiation
I'm not going to have a discussion about fucking tone policing with you mate, deal with it