Debunking NATO propaganda and consent manufacturing means massively massively more than your personal relationships and comfort. I don't want to hear how hard it is to be called a 'shill for Putin'. People should have already been calling you a shill for Assad, for Kim Jong Un, for Xi, for Castro or you have been fucking NEGLIGENT AS LEFTISTS. If you're in the imperial core your primary fucking duty is to anti imperialism. Clearly a lot of you haven't been doing this. Now there are possible nuclear consequences and I see a great deal of you still too fucking chicken shit to stick their necks out for people living under the thumbs of America and NATO. Investigate the situation thoroughly and have an informed, consistent take based in Marxism and historical materialism and then REPEAT IT LOUDLY AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND LET IT BE KNOWN THAT THE WORKERS OF THE WORLD DO NOT STAND FOR THIS. This is supposed to be a board of principled communists, act like it.
Read Combat Liberalism
You wouldn't accept any answer except war with Ukraine.
There is no use in talking to you.
Soooo...what should have Russia done instead? Also invading acountry doesn't equal imperialism. Read Lenin. It's a neighboring country that has been constantly courting international American/nato interests and doing ethnic cleansing in regions that voted in favor of independence several times. Russia has yet to show any aim to occupy Ukraine permanently or to use them for cheap foreign labor. Doing a war doesn't make you an imperialist. You could call Putim that for other reasons but not this specific one.
Also I don't support war in Ukraine which is why they should surrender and end the bloodshed cause that's the only way its not gonna just get worse.
Fucking thank you.
tfw you have internalized imperialism so hard that any military actions by any state at all is hard-locked to “imperialism”.
Also what happens when you don’t bother reading what imperialism is lol
Maybe try not calling everyone who disagrees with you a liberal before they even speak. People might take you more seriously.
There have been ~20k deaths in Ukraine since the start of the civil war. Almost all of them could have been avoided if Russia had not taken Crimea.
Taking over a sovereign country because Russia wants warm water ports and a route for natural gas lines makes them imperialist. Anyone arguing differently is not arguing in good faith.
Ukraine should never surrender to Putin's Russia. They would become a vassal state like Belorussia.
The deaths happened as part of resistance to Maidan, which preceded Crimea annexation by a full year. The NATO-backed coup started the civil war, not Russia. You need to be more educated on the context before you speak with such derisive authority
Oh my god the amount of queer people, leftists, and minorities who have been murdered by Ukrainian fascists… this is a gross fucking take.
The people’s republics have a right to self determination. I’m really surprised there’s not more Anarchists raising hell about that.
Want to show some numbers on those deaths? Russians have killed 2000 Ukrainian civilians in less than a week.
Ukraine has a right to self determination as well.
I'm really worried about how delusional some leftists are about how brutal the Russians will be to the LGBT community once they take power. There are a lot more neo-nazis in Russia than Ukraine.
Take a look at the polling done by the UN in the years leading up to the annexation.
Nearly 70% of Crimeans wanted to be a part of Russia.
:very-intelligent: Clearly the answer is to let the American funded fascists murder everyone who wants that and throw their bodies in mass graves.
ANSWER MY DIRECT QUESTION. WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST RUSSIA SHOULD HAVE DONE?
The real answer is that Russia should have quietly submitted as coups keep happening all around them, slowly suffocating them
No, no, I want to hear the answer from the guy who was owning me so hard until I pressed the question.
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We want the war to end. We want NATO to stay the fuck away and for Ukraine to surrender and minimize loss of life. We want the 1 million people of Donbas and the 13 million Russian speaking Ukrainians to know peace instead of terror and shelling for 8 years.
It’s the NATO/UKR supporters that are pushing martyrdom, false hope, suicidal guerrilla tactics, insurgency, terror. They are bringing in ISIS from Turkey to fight on their behalf, they released all the prisoners and they have Nazi battalions. These people are the bloody warmongers and they are the ones that created this entire situation. They are preventing evacuations of civilians to use them as shields.
You have been warned
The fuck you lost me with the ending
See my other response, I meant it more generally and rhetorically as foreboding what is to come (Insurgency, AZOV+ISIS combo, lots of civilian deaths, many killed by Ukrainians themselves). Also I’m drunk
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The warning is rhetorical and general, not directed at you or someone specific. I just mean that you will see in the upcoming months great terrors unleashed if the Ukrainian government doesn’t come to its senses. There’s no going back now and only one way out of this, and that’s decisive Russian victory and for Putin’s regime to remain intact until this operation is complete at the very least. NATO is going to try and push a color revolution.
https://i.imgur.com/5oghF71.jpg
This is TFSA. If you know anything about the Syrian Civil War, this is Turkish-backed Daesh. ISIS. Can’t wait to see if they get along with Nazis.
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The war was started 8 years ago by NATO, Russia is just trying to finish it.
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Coward
(Not the person you responded to.)
TBH IMO Russia should've done nothing. Fuck nation-states. Though, of course, working-class Russians could've gone as individuals and affinity groups and lent their own muscle, as leftists have done to good effect in places like Revolutionary Catalonia and Syria.
Who else should've done something is leftists in U.S. and other NATO countries, and I'm pretty pissed at them/us for not coming out and joining some of us who were protesting the jingoism so we could build to the point where we could do more than protest. (Fucking back-to-brunchers!)
That kind of opposition—and solidarity with Ukrainian leftists—is what can do things like back NATO off without the war, disarm the neo-Nazis, and allow people in Ukraine to defend themselves and start to recover (including building autonomy for the communities who want it).
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Reason: sectarianism
I'm not sure what this reply said, but I'd ask you to look at the other comments I've made in this thread, and realize that I'm taking your position far more than that of the people you were arguing with. I know damned well who is at the historic heart of this mess (U.S./NATO). I just don't appreciate nation-states acting like they are the solution, and I'd hope that people understand at least that Russia is an explicitly capitalist nation-state and agree to some extent at least in this circumstance that what it's doing is in the interests of its capitalist puppet masters and not for any "altruistic" reasons.
Nothing actually got removed. I worte that myself. I'm just like...not an anarchist but also don't really have anything against what you're saying aside from that
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People fall for my self mods a lot. Reasons are only ever posted in the mod log and they're usually following the actual removed post instead of the removed by mod thing. I do leave hints
The majority of the deaths are on the donbass and republics region and them breaking off and trying to be pro russian independant was concurrent with Russia taking Crimea or even earlier. The post 2014 coup and far right dominated Ukrainian military would be shelling those regions into submission and be enacting ethnic supression efforts no matter what Russia did in Crimea. Look at any map taken before the coup. Thos regions supported the Russian couped president at 80%+ and the ideological ,geopolitical and historical viewpointsof the western ukraine dominated post 2014 order and those regions are and would only have been solved within Ukraine by the same civil war conflicts we so
Answer the question. They tried diplomatic routes. They were ignored in the UN for 8 years, their ceasefires not upheld at all.