So I made 2 detailed posts on this recently. I'll link one and just copy the other cause I think it is worth it.
Here is a two comment effort post I made on Rosa's conflict with Lenin over Ukrainian nationhood, which goes into a lot of stuff involving the Rada.
https://hexbear.net/post/176089/comment/2176838
Extracted from a conversation so it might be a bit weird
Bolsheviks in Kiev had fallen back however AFTER the Bolshevik uprising in November of 1917 which led to the creation of the Central Rada and thus the creation of the Ukrainian People’s Republic. There was no nation for anyone to recognize until after Bolshevism had significantly become a thing in Kiev, and not by force through Lenin.
They fell back to Kharkiv (east but bordering the north of Donbas for anyone reading our convo who is unaware) because it was a stronger position, and because the central rada had turned on them. The UPR was recognized, or at least witnessed by France, Romania, and Italy on November 27th with the 3rd universal declaration, which importantly did not consider Ukraine a separate nation, but rather an autonomous region of the Russian state. The 4th came in January of 1918 and overwhelmingly voted to become independent. The British don’t recognize the 4th Universal and a fully independent Ukraine until January 22nd of 1918, after the December 1917 military confrontation between the Red Army and the UPR in Bakhmach, and the Bolsheviks leaving the All-Ukrainian congress of Soviets which then recognized the UPR both on the same day december 17th. On december 18th 1917 the Russian Bolsheviks declare war on the UPR. As well as earlier in november Bolsheviks in Vinnytsia west of Kiev seize the city and attempted to move to capture Kiev but got stopped and deported in december. They take Kharkiv on december 26th.
It is not only not really that similar, its also the case that the UPR was not recognized as separate from the Russian state until after the Red Army invaded, which came months after serious Bolshevik influence in Kiev, completely homegrown. It was not just Donbas, Kharkiv, and some pockets in other cities, those groups in other cities had significant influence and roles up to the point of war. One that is pretty debatable as to whether the soviets even declared war on a recognized independent Ukraine given the timeline of independence, recognition, and recognition of independence being different but close. The red army was in Ukraine prior to independence, and armed revolts west of the Dnieper occur before anyone recognizes a Ukrainian government “considered not part of the new Bolshevik regime”
So to simplify, a revolt happens in 1917 headed by Soviet Ukrainians, this helps form the Central Rada which goes to negotiations and the 3rd Universal Declaration is acknowledged, one that states Ukraine is autonomous but NOT independent. The Bolsheviks of Ukraine, along with direct RSFSR support in the east, move in after the Central Rada goes full bourgeoise, with the All-Ukrainian Council of Soviets being banned. Like my comment above says, a lot of homegrown support precedes the Red Army moving in.
The Ukrainian Civil War was not a separate thing the Bolsheviks invaded during. It was a part of the civil war, which itself was a front of the Russian Civil War. The start of the civil war is always given as the conflict between the UPR and the Bolsheviks. The civil war is the result OF the Soviet involvement, made complicated by Poland invading the WUPR and the UPR making a deal with the Central Powers giving them control of ports etc.
I'd recommend also looking into events like the Kiev Arsenal January Uprising for a good idea of how much this was not a simple state vs state conflict, but rather another part of a civil war WITHIN a civil war for the corpse of the Russian Empire. The Bolsheviks are pushed back by the Germans and the rest of 1918 the new Berlin-backed government that couped the Rada rules with little conflict from the Soviets. I assume you mean 1919 by "intervened", which as I've hopefully covered was not involvement in a separate conflict, but reopening a front that had been lost to the Germans. With WW1 over the Bolsheviks decided to liberate their comrades in Ukraine, who again had authentically formed the Rada, been kicked out of it, formed a new government, had grassroots uprisings put down across Ukraine, taken Kyiv, before being forced to retreat. So legitimacy was hardly a thing at this point, and they had comrades stuck in reactionary hands. France takes Crimea but finds itself frustrated by the factionalism and egos of the Whites and leaves. The Bolsheviks had moved in again of course in 1919, with the help of Left-SRs who had fled Ukraine to Russia previously, their UPSR officially mobilized troops to support the Soviets on December 28th 1918. By this time the Polish imperialists had already beaten the WUPR.
The Ukrainian Soviet gov which had fled previously, once again formed but in Kursk, and on Jan 6th 1919 Pyatakov declared the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Mostly Bolshevik forces had amassed as partisan forces, with frequent river crossings and volunteers, prior to the formation of the Ukrainian Front on Jan 4th. It had been formed from 2 insurgent partisan divisions september 22nd 1918. This Front would become the 1,2,3 Ukrainian Soviet armies on april 15th 1919. A Crimean army also added May 5th after the 2nd army was moved to the southern front.
The fight of Soviet Partisans in Ukraine against Germans, French, Ukrainians, etc is incredible. The film Shchors about the famous Red cavalry commander Shchors covers this stuff, in fact it was my first exposure to the partisan angle. Cool early scene has them smuggle communists over a river and ID them based on chalk markings on their backs. Chicherin's explanation of the fighting
.there is no army of the Russian Socialist Soviet Republic in Ukraine. At this time the military action that takes place on the territory of Ukraine is between the armies of Directory and the Ukrainian Soviet Government which is completely independent.
So I made 2 detailed posts on this recently. I'll link one and just copy the other cause I think it is worth it.
Here is a two comment effort post I made on Rosa's conflict with Lenin over Ukrainian nationhood, which goes into a lot of stuff involving the Rada. https://hexbear.net/post/176089/comment/2176838
Extracted from a conversation so it might be a bit weird
So to simplify, a revolt happens in 1917 headed by Soviet Ukrainians, this helps form the Central Rada which goes to negotiations and the 3rd Universal Declaration is acknowledged, one that states Ukraine is autonomous but NOT independent. The Bolsheviks of Ukraine, along with direct RSFSR support in the east, move in after the Central Rada goes full bourgeoise, with the All-Ukrainian Council of Soviets being banned. Like my comment above says, a lot of homegrown support precedes the Red Army moving in.
The Ukrainian Civil War was not a separate thing the Bolsheviks invaded during. It was a part of the civil war, which itself was a front of the Russian Civil War. The start of the civil war is always given as the conflict between the UPR and the Bolsheviks. The civil war is the result OF the Soviet involvement, made complicated by Poland invading the WUPR and the UPR making a deal with the Central Powers giving them control of ports etc.
I'd recommend also looking into events like the Kiev Arsenal January Uprising for a good idea of how much this was not a simple state vs state conflict, but rather another part of a civil war WITHIN a civil war for the corpse of the Russian Empire. The Bolsheviks are pushed back by the Germans and the rest of 1918 the new Berlin-backed government that couped the Rada rules with little conflict from the Soviets. I assume you mean 1919 by "intervened", which as I've hopefully covered was not involvement in a separate conflict, but reopening a front that had been lost to the Germans. With WW1 over the Bolsheviks decided to liberate their comrades in Ukraine, who again had authentically formed the Rada, been kicked out of it, formed a new government, had grassroots uprisings put down across Ukraine, taken Kyiv, before being forced to retreat. So legitimacy was hardly a thing at this point, and they had comrades stuck in reactionary hands. France takes Crimea but finds itself frustrated by the factionalism and egos of the Whites and leaves. The Bolsheviks had moved in again of course in 1919, with the help of Left-SRs who had fled Ukraine to Russia previously, their UPSR officially mobilized troops to support the Soviets on December 28th 1918. By this time the Polish imperialists had already beaten the WUPR.
The Ukrainian Soviet gov which had fled previously, once again formed but in Kursk, and on Jan 6th 1919 Pyatakov declared the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Mostly Bolshevik forces had amassed as partisan forces, with frequent river crossings and volunteers, prior to the formation of the Ukrainian Front on Jan 4th. It had been formed from 2 insurgent partisan divisions september 22nd 1918. This Front would become the 1,2,3 Ukrainian Soviet armies on april 15th 1919. A Crimean army also added May 5th after the 2nd army was moved to the southern front.
The fight of Soviet Partisans in Ukraine against Germans, French, Ukrainians, etc is incredible. The film Shchors about the famous Red cavalry commander Shchors covers this stuff, in fact it was my first exposure to the partisan angle. Cool early scene has them smuggle communists over a river and ID them based on chalk markings on their backs. Chicherin's explanation of the fighting