Removed by mod
incels should take SSRIs
Removed by modget some zoloft in these frustrated and depressed young men. if it doesn't cure the depression it will at least remove sex as their only desire / signifier of success, which would probably force some perspective... is that what chemical castration is? have i chemically castrated myself?
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sorry comrade I think you have the wrong address, bad posting is right over there
As someone who went down the incel path for a bit, it was more about not being able to meet the societal standard for a successful man not so much the lack of sex itself. Taking drugs wouldn't have helped me not feel like an unlovable failure. I think dismantling the patriarchy and providing better mental healthcare are much better solutions.
Yeah, I was also a sexually frustrated young guy in my teens/early 20s (in a "Man I wish I could get laid" kind of way, not "I can't get laid because women are evil"). Within a year of starting Prozac, getting a car, moving out, and getting on the dating apps in my mid-20s I went from not having a girlfriend since middle school to dating 3-6 girls at a time.
It's not all upsides; it's made me into a better-functioning person but, I also recognize, in many ways a worse one.
In many ways, I think that building intimate, sexual relationships with others is an integral part of maturation and it's natural that those who are left behind feel neglected. There is a reason why people say it "Makes you into a man/woman". Completely unironically, getting laid on a regular basis completely changed the way I look at the opposite sex, myself, and life in general.
But it's not really about the sex for incels, it's about what having a girlfriend, or having hook ups, symbolises in our patriarchal society. It's about the power (over women) that symbolises in our sexist society. They see themselves as failures because they cannot get a girlfriend or hook up with a woman for casual sex. Removing their sex drive isn't going to eliminate that feeling of inadequacy or failure from them. In fact it could make their behaviour towards women worse, and make them feel more inadequate.
oh it was definitely about sex for me before i had my first partner.
I mean often times incels got other comorbidities going on like untreated anxiety or depression that an SSRI would help, but then there's those incels who want a partner for the platonic love and not just sex which a depression med isn't going to fix.
Neither depression nor anxiety are reliably treated by an SSRI, or any medication for that matter, or any known medical treatment for that matter. Come to think of it SSRIs are far better at causing sexual dysfunction than they are at treating depression: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6007725/
I dunno about that they worked for me, my quality of life got better when I was put on them.
I don't think anyone disputes that they work for some people, but only around 50% will receive any benefit whatsoever, that's being generous, compared to 25% for a placebo, a huge number of people are taking these for no reason except to reduce their doctor's liability should they harm themselves. And being technically "medicated" they are much less likely to shop around for something that works better for them or might supplement the ssri, which is almost always the correct treatment strategy.
Neither depression nor anxiety are reliably treated by an SSRI
While this is true (depending on what "reliably" means), it's important to know that the effectiveness of SSRI's at reducing depressive symptoms is about on par with therapy. Combined, medication and therapy are like 15-25% more effective than either treatment alone (which have 50-60% success rate).
Also compared to a lot of standard, or even 'gold-standard' treatments offered by other medical professionals for health issues in their field, a 50% success rate is not rare.
Not trying to be a debater, but I hope that if there's someone reading this who is on the fence about trying an antidepressant or SSRI isn't scared off from a treatment that could potential change (or save) their life, you know?
I don't think we have any fundamental disagreement. I think SSRIs are over prescribed not because people shouldn't be trying them but because their doctors aren't taking them off of it when they don't work or don't work well enough to justify the side effects.
Yes, true and true. I admittedly get hypervigilant about topics like these. There are already so many hurdles for people to start getting help, that I wanted to balance the convo towards a more "critical support" kinda vibe, instead of only criticism.
For a long time I only ever heard about why SSRIs are bad, and that stopped me from pursuing medication after years of being severely depressed and therapy failing me multiple times. It turned out I was in the lucky 40% whose first try with an SSRI works out
In a similar vein, the discourse against "self-diagnosis" had me gaslighting myself about my very obvious and debilitating ADHD, so I never sought an assessment until I was so burned out and cognitively drained that I could only work at like 25% of my capacity. Once I got over those help-seeking hurdles, and received my diagnosis and a prescription, I bounced back in a major way that I could never have fathomed.
Breaking out of the doom spiral may not be able to fix the relationship problem but it can potentially lead to a shift to a healthier perspective on relationships and taking steps towards self improvement which can result in one. Although this would require a feed of positive thought which I don't think they will necessarily be engaging with.
I used to know an incel guy back when I was one too, had an incel phase after a breakup and true incels are stubborn as fuck, so they're probably not going to break out of the doom spiral and get a healthier view on relationships or take an SSRI for that matter, since he also believed Alex Jones tier conspiracy.
it will at least remove sex as their only desire
Idk, man. I think there's something fundamentally fucked about tackling social alienation by just... shoving pills in the faces of random frustrated young men.
There's definitely real medical issues for people who can't/don't produce the right mix of brain juice. But there's also people who just need to go out and touch some fucking grass. Even the most dire medical interventions suggest you need to do a bit of both. Round up all the alienated men and women and send them to Spring Break down in Cabo. Maybe try that for a minute, and then lets see who washes out and still needs meds.
have i chemically castrated myself?
No. That's typically a lot more painful and permanent. But you're engaging in a tactical trade off that's the result of case-by-case analysis.
Its like putting pins in your leg to fix a bone break. You're not going to Leg Jail. But this also isn't the sort of thing everyone should do, just because they've got bruised shins.
every life that can be saved should be saved. most incels are probably salvageable.
No. Just because a life is salvageable doesn’t mean we should expend the resources to do so. There are so many Black men being held in literal slavery in the US prison system they deserve all resources first compared to any fucking incel. Even if we did have the resources to give everyone mental care, we should not give it to incels because their suffering is good, they are the people we want to dispossess as communists. We should not spare any effort in trying to deradicalize the right, they made their bed now they should lie in it.
Prozac and Zoloft never made me less horny. It just makes actually getting off more difficult. If anything that would make sexual frustration worse
Also being an incel is way more ideological than mere sexual frustration
Sex is their only desire not because they are horny all the time, but because they think having sex will solve all their problems and make them a powerful and important person.
Like all good cult/grift sort of things like this, they're both told that sex is the most important thing, and are then taught to behave in a way that makes it virtually impossible to actually get it. It's the carrot dangled in front of them by the group to keep them in line. This promise of "success" that will never manifest as long as they are an incel.
the only way to solve what ills incels is to destroy the misogynist societies they live in which do indeed force heterosexual women to embrace strict gender performance and heterosexual men to do the same. It’s a horrifying ouroboros thing where what hurts incels is what hurts women. the solution is of course communism but the depth of intersectional challenge is why we are where we are
unfortunately that also doesn't help anybody who is hurting right now.
we need more immediate solutions that we can sneak in under liberalism, not "oh well maybe 3 generations from now the conditions that create this problem will be rooted out".
my commie gender politics don't keep me warm at night.
i didn't say we can't walk and chew gum at the same time but i do think that even those stopgap solutions should come from our commie gender politics
This is not an okay thing to say, even jokingly. Neurochemical straitjacketing is actually horrifying eugenics shit.
So you're saying that we should treat incels like Israel treats Ethiopian Jews?
