Transphobic jokes in the Dark Souls community surrounding Gwyndolin still crop up and continues to push me away from engaging the general community.
The game is from 2011, transpeople wouldn't be invented for like half a decade.
While transphobes will certainly express hate via "jokes" that don't actually contain any joke in 2022, earlier ones were made from a place of ignorance rather than hate, and stick around due to a lack of introspection.
I guess what I'm saying is the community is somewhat less transphobic than the number of slurs they use would suggest.
OK, but they say that entirely in bad faith to justify doing more transphobia. That's no different than declaring themselves feminists or center-left.
As a cis, I don't have a very accurate idea of what a transperson will experience in the DS community, but I can verify I and multiple other cis people basically not understanding that trans is a thing in the early 2010s or that certain terms were derogatory until someone pulled them aside and explained.
At least some portion of the apparent transphobia was due to ignorance rather than expressing hate using "jokes" to dodge criticism.
The game is from 2011, transpeople wouldn’t be invented for like half a decade.
Cringe
ignorance not hate
This is a tired excuse that’s been used to justify racism for decades.
The jokes are reactionary and so is the community , being gamers, that’s why they’re popular. As in many other cases, you start to push back against this and often times they’ll double down on it rather than learn. So I don’t necessarily see people throwing around transphobic shit as ‘ignorant people who just need to be taken aside and explained why what they’re saying is bad’ as much as reactionaries engaging in reactionary behavior.
you can do that and maybe a select few will do better but most will just be like “lol just a joke bro” especially when the larger community around them supports that language.
Regardless they’re perpetuating negative stereotypes and marginalization of trans people whether they realize it or not. When some white dude from the south says heritage not hate it’s the same kind of attempt at distancing themselves from the actual harm of their reactionary mindset.
Also way to come in and try to speak over a trans person as a cis person about their experience wrt transphobia lol
way to come in and try to speak over a trans person as a cis person about their experience wrt transphobia lol
I'm not speaking over anyone's experience. She said she was weary of interacting with the community due what they see from the outside, I said I can't speak to what a transperson will experience within the community, only that some portion appears worse than they are due to how old the game and community is.
The jokes are reactionary and so is the community , being gamers, that’s why they’re popular. As in many other cases, you start to push back against this and often times they’ll double down on it rather than learn
I'm not suggesting anyone give the benefit of the doubt to gamers throwing transphobic shit around in 2022 after so much public discussion and visibility.
Like if you see a community generating that stuff in 2022, they're making a conscious effort to be virulently hateful.
Tbh It feels like you’re overly giving the benefit of the doubt to the 2011 jokes based on when you personally didn’t know much about trans people. Obviously there’s been a push in 2022 for people to know, but transphobia is transphobia, racism is racism.
The issue I took with your post is trying to divide reactionary jokes and ideology into “good” or “bad” categories, where one is simply a mistake and one is only bad if the person perpetrating it is really truly vile. Bc most of the ways that reactionary ideology spreads is giving a pass to the former and the latter takes advantage of that. And I don’t think any marginalized person on the ground feels any better about a racist, trans-, or homophobic joke made at their expense just bc the person who said it just didn’t know any better
In the same way I find the “trans people wouldn’t be invented for years” joke in bad taste bc trans people have been fighting the public perception that they’re some new fad despite all evidence to the contrary. Those kinds of sentiments, intentionally or not, help spread misinformation that sticks in peoples heads about marginalized groups
The issue I took with your post is trying to divide reactionary jokes and ideology into “good” or “bad” categories, where one is simply a mistake and one is only bad if the person perpetrating it is really truly vile.
Fair. I should have articulated how predictive the same behaviors are in 2011 vs 2022 of how hostile the community is towards transpeople without coming off as excusing the behavior itself.
In the same way I find the “trans people wouldn’t be invented for years” joke in bad taste bc trans people have been fighting the public perception that they’re some new fad despite all evidence to the contrary
Apologies.
I was mocking that the average person didn't know anything about transpeople rather than implying that transpeople are actually new, it's easy to forget there are people who actually believe the second.
You’re fine. I didn’t mean to be super harsh I’ve just known a lot of people to hide behind that rhetoric and I do think it probably contributes more to perpetuating reaction than even more overt stuff bc it gets a pass. I guess where Im coming from is they don’t need us to run defense for them, the criticism is more important in my view but I can understand that it can be taken far at sometimes by libs abusing idpol
The game is from 2011, transpeople wouldn't be invented for like half a decade.
While transphobes will certainly express hate via "jokes" that don't actually contain any joke in 2022, earlier ones were made from a place of ignorance rather than hate, and stick around due to a lack of introspection.
I guess what I'm saying is the community is somewhat less transphobic than the number of slurs they use would suggest.
deleted by creator
OK, but they say that entirely in bad faith to justify doing more transphobia. That's no different than declaring themselves feminists or center-left.
As a cis, I don't have a very accurate idea of what a transperson will experience in the DS community, but I can verify I and multiple other cis people basically not understanding that trans is a thing in the early 2010s or that certain terms were derogatory until someone pulled them aside and explained.
At least some portion of the apparent transphobia was due to ignorance rather than expressing hate using "jokes" to dodge criticism.
This is a tired excuse that’s been used to justify racism for decades.
The jokes are reactionary and so is the community , being gamers, that’s why they’re popular. As in many other cases, you start to push back against this and often times they’ll double down on it rather than learn. So I don’t necessarily see people throwing around transphobic shit as ‘ignorant people who just need to be taken aside and explained why what they’re saying is bad’ as much as reactionaries engaging in reactionary behavior.
you can do that and maybe a select few will do better but most will just be like “lol just a joke bro” especially when the larger community around them supports that language.
Regardless they’re perpetuating negative stereotypes and marginalization of trans people whether they realize it or not. When some white dude from the south says heritage not hate it’s the same kind of attempt at distancing themselves from the actual harm of their reactionary mindset.
Also way to come in and try to speak over a trans person as a cis person about their experience wrt transphobia lol
I'm not speaking over anyone's experience. She said she was weary of interacting with the community due what they see from the outside, I said I can't speak to what a transperson will experience within the community, only that some portion appears worse than they are due to how old the game and community is.
I'm not suggesting anyone give the benefit of the doubt to gamers throwing transphobic shit around in 2022 after so much public discussion and visibility.
Like if you see a community generating that stuff in 2022, they're making a conscious effort to be virulently hateful.
Tbh It feels like you’re overly giving the benefit of the doubt to the 2011 jokes based on when you personally didn’t know much about trans people. Obviously there’s been a push in 2022 for people to know, but transphobia is transphobia, racism is racism.
The issue I took with your post is trying to divide reactionary jokes and ideology into “good” or “bad” categories, where one is simply a mistake and one is only bad if the person perpetrating it is really truly vile. Bc most of the ways that reactionary ideology spreads is giving a pass to the former and the latter takes advantage of that. And I don’t think any marginalized person on the ground feels any better about a racist, trans-, or homophobic joke made at their expense just bc the person who said it just didn’t know any better
In the same way I find the “trans people wouldn’t be invented for years” joke in bad taste bc trans people have been fighting the public perception that they’re some new fad despite all evidence to the contrary. Those kinds of sentiments, intentionally or not, help spread misinformation that sticks in peoples heads about marginalized groupsFair. I should have articulated how predictive the same behaviors are in 2011 vs 2022 of how hostile the community is towards transpeople without coming off as excusing the behavior itself.
Apologies.
I was mocking that the average person didn't know anything about transpeople rather than implying that transpeople are actually new, it's easy to forget there are people who actually believe the second.
You’re fine. I didn’t mean to be super harsh I’ve just known a lot of people to hide behind that rhetoric and I do think it probably contributes more to perpetuating reaction than even more overt stuff bc it gets a pass. I guess where Im coming from is they don’t need us to run defense for them, the criticism is more important in my view but I can understand that it can be taken far at sometimes by libs abusing idpol