• AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]
    ·
    3 years ago

    no, thats excess deaths, unaccounted for deaths that are abnormal compared to the rate we'd expect given past years data, meaning this is in addition to the confirmed covid deaths

    • FirstToServe [they/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      The chart you linked is 'excess deaths' and I see absolutely nothing corroborating your definition. If I'm going to believe and repeat this information, I need it to be cited and I need the source not to be some guy on a crank website like this who may or may not be a Jimmy Dore fan based on their username.

      Here's the CDC's own definition of "excess deaths". Since you're citing the CDC's data.

      Excess deaths are typically defined as the difference between the observed numbers of deaths in specific time periods and expected numbers of deaths in the same time periods. [...] Counts of deaths from all causes of death, including COVID-19, are presented.

      (Emphasis added)

      https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

      So the definition you're using is in direct conflict with the source you're using's own definition.

      So, uh.... what's your deal here? Whatcha up to, buddy? What does lying about 2 million accomplish for you that being truthful about 1 million doesn't? Is there a way you could have come to this distortion honestly that is beyond my imagination?

      • Heifer [none/use name]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Excess deaths are typically defined as the difference between the observed numbers of deaths in specific time periods and expected numbers of deaths in the same time periods. [… ] deaths from all causes excluding COVID-19 were also estimated

        (Emphasis added)

        ^Just as useful

        Anyways, if you’re serious, what you’re quoting is actually explaining is that this statistic is defined as a relatively simple differential; you count all the recorded deaths, including the specifically identified covid -19 related deaths, and compare that to the expected number of deaths (ignoring the pandemic) .

        This is useful as the predicted/expected number of deaths is usually quite accurate in countries in a state of peace and economic stability (e.g. no nationwide famine, severe generational natural disaster). Such that when something notable such as a pandemic happens the sharp, significant rise in recorded (actual deaths) can be compared to the ‘predicted’

        Now why would it bother confusing me by including the statement about including and/or excluding covid deaths?

        When you exclude these deaths you can identify the number of ‘tertiary’ covid deaths (caused by the pandemic but not officially classified as)

        Explained on that link as

        These deaths could represent misclassified COVID-19 deaths, or potentially could be indirectly related to the COVID-19 pandemic (e.g., deaths from other causes occurring in the context of health care shortages or overburdened health care systems). ___

        • FirstToServe [they/them]
          ·
          3 years ago

          "If you're serious" :bern-disgust:

          ^Just as useful

          Uh... no? The point of contention is literally "does this number include COVID deaths" and my quotation settles that. They are included. So when AOC added that number to the official covid deaths.... every single covid death was double counted. That's how they got 2 million+.

          You just spent a lot of words not contesting that point. The actual point.

          These are for you: :PIGPOOPBALLS: :downbear:

          • Heifer [none/use name]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Honestly deserve that

            Didn’t read this thread correctly at all, and didn’t realize that the 2 mil figure talking point had been from people adding to excess deaths (which is exactly what you detailed)

            I think the jimmy dore/crank website comment just made me immediately jump to conclusions (And I’m pedantic and still think your quote isn’t useful)

            OP gives a clear and accurate definition of excess deaths

            thats excess deaths, unaccounted for deaths that are abnormal compared to the rate we’d expect given past years data, (data from years that had no covid)

            Then they somehow jumped to “meaning this is in addition to the confirmed covid deaths” and my brain was just :cat-vibing: