I intended to have this counterpart to the previous thread posted tomorrow, but I figured why not now.

I am a lifelong fan of the Dune series, from the Lynch 1980s movie to the book (that I read years later and loved) to the unfinished works in the Path of Dune collection. Some of the post-Frank Herbert stuff isn't so good to me, but the setting and story and worldbuilding as a whole were always an inspiration for me. It lead me to believe that science fiction didn't have to always be stuffy, that it could be loaded with powerful pathos moments and compelling complex characters.

I admired Isaac Asimov and his overall body of work, but characters in his stories were almost like walking talking plot devices leading to what he really wanted to talk about, by contrast.

It went over a lot of people's heads, but the message that messiah figures and chosen ones and Great Man Theory in general was a dangerous and even ruinous concept was quite a novel message to weave through Dune's themes, especially in its Frank Herbert-written sequels.

Some of Dune aged very poorly, especially stuff like the gender essentialist woo about what women could do versus what men could do in the Bene Gessarit versus the Mentats, respectively. It also has a sort of "the gays are evil" old people bias, as presented with Baron Harkonnen. Even so, I'm a full believer in the idea that it's possible to accept criticism of things we enjoy without going full treat defender against such criticisms.

  • Eris235 [undecided]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Generally agree. The horny in the later books striked me as absurd enough it mostly just elicited and eyeroll and a chuckle, but I also very rarely like 'on screen' sex/romance in fiction, so I wouldn't be the target audience even if it wasn't weird.

    And yeah, fuck Gary Gygax. But, I didn't mean to completely handwave away the orc problem in LOTR, its more that I think that its less of a problem in LOTR than it is in a lot of later fantasy, where orcs are just tribespeople for you to slaughter. Tolkien had some issues, especially the whole "dying mad about vatican 2", but he feel like he was generally less racist and sexist than a lot of his contemporaries. Which, isn't an excuse, since he did still misstep with their depiction, but considering how contradictory and conflicted his different notes are about orcs and the possible origin and makeup, reads to me as someone who knew he wrote himself into a corner, and couldn't really find a good solution to make it right, and chose to just ignore the problem. Which, isn't great, but could be worse I guess.

    Speaking of Chud meltdown, like how all the gods were all kind of genderfluid, in that they explicitly wore myriad forms before settling on their favored shapes?

    • UlyssesT [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      2 years ago

      Speaking of Chud meltdown, like how all the gods were all kind of genderfluid, in that they explicitly wore myriad forms before settling on their favored shapes?

      I don't think the chuds have melted down about that one because they don't know about it in the first place. :shrug-outta-hecks: